Royal Dublin Fusiliers buttons and makers

[phaethon]

Today I got large Armfield Ltd., Birmingham button, made c. 1902-1922

[phaethon]

and well worn small one without any maker marks. c. 1902-1922

[phaethon]

One more "top five" buttons, what I have so far

102 Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers) large button. After 1881 they became a 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

I really like "Plassey" on it! Button made by Jennens & Co, London.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by phaethon

One more "top five" buttons, what I have so far

102 Regiment of Foot (Royal Madras Fusiliers) large button. After 1881 they became a 1st Battalion Royal Dublin Fusiliers.

I really like "Plassey" on it! Button made by Jennens & Co, London.

Wow....that is an absolute beauty. I really admire many of the designs on the pre 1881 buttons.

[davidwyke]

Very interesting RDF button pics! Here are a few which I have which are in addition to those you have :
A) QVC - Officers - Large: Pitt & Co, 50 St Martins Lane, London. (This dates 1881-c.1894, address changed to 3l Maddox St c.1895).
B) KC - Officers - Small: JR Gaunt & Son Ltd, London, Engld
(no maker) - circle of dots
(no maker) - "spun back"
C) KC Senior NCOs - (brass) - small: "established 1765"

Hi all,
Although the data on the site quoted above,( UKDF), looks good it actually perpetuates errors in the work of Gwen Squire and others and seems to have accumulated errors all of their own. The people who run the site in question do not respond to emails offering corrections - & yes my resources are far superior to theirs because I've taken the trouble to research the vast majority of it myself from primary & good secondary source material sources. Anyone from this site who wants particular company histories, ( I have thousands of them but still not by any means all), is more than welcome to ask me through my website at www.buttoncrs.com contact page - assuming I miss such queries here. Do mention this site tho' so I don't try to charge you for it - a practice I had to start in self defence because I couldn't cope with the hundreds of enquiries. Cordially J

[phaethon]

It has been pretty quaiet, regards of RDF buttons.
But here is my new arrival from fellow forum member. Does anyone know which company used this kind a battern on the back?

Button is from 1902-1922 period. Very shiny and nice!

[phaethon]

One more question to button experts. I tried to get a nice RDF button on ebay but somehow this one sold pretty high (at least to me and what I have seen other same regiment buttons sell for). Unfortunately I wasn't highest bidder.

Is there anything special with this one???

[davidwyke]

Hi

Regarding the two previous posts.

I don't know which company used that design on the back but I have lots of buttons with the same design (military & civilian).

The second button is a bit out of the ordinary as it appears to be brass (usually senior NCO) rather than a gilt officers button.

[phaethon]

Thank you David.

Here is two more:

Gaunt, London 1902-1922 (Previous Gaunt was named "Gaunt & Sons Ltd.")
Can this one be as well post 1922 made for a collectors, like Gaunt did with the cap badges (stamp on the slider)?

[phaethon]

One of my favorite! 1881-1902 period "Firmin & Sons Ld. London" made large button. Details are just amazing. Slightly different letter font and it is really high button.



PS: I am looking desepratelly now a small, 1881-1902 period, RDF button

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by phaethon

and well worn small one without any maker marks. c. 1902-1922

It has occurred to me that this was perhaps a senior NCOs button, as mentioned by John Mulcahy earlier in the thread. Senior NCOs tended to over polish their buttons when compared with officers and the lack of a makers mark implies (in my mind) a cheaper button.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by phaethon

One of my favorite! 1881-1902 period "Firmin & Sons Ld. London" made large button. Details are just amazing. Slightly different letter font and it is really high button.



PS: I am looking desepratelly now a small, 1881-1902 period, RDF button

Such a beautiful button, I agree. This thread has really opened my mind to just how many button suppliers there were and has sparked a question in my mind too. Were there really that many dies (which were expensive) for stamping the impressions of regimental motifs, with each button maker having the entire Army's patterns? Or could it be that the button makers purchased embossed circles of gilding metal plate from just a few stamping works (factories) and then crimped them on to their own backs, each of which with the button maker's name engraved. Such an arrangement would seem to me more practical. It would maintain two separate industries and avoid each button maker having to purchase a die for almost every regiment. Sub-contracting was hardly new and this method is used by so many other parts of the outfitting industry such as hatters, cobblers and tailors.

[paj1]

Hi Guys
A few months ago i got a small group of victorian era RDF items all good
also a number of these buttons
measures 25mm Firmin and sons 153 Strand London & 13 Conduit st
on the back of the buttons
i have been told these are for waiters mess dress
does anyone know if this is correct ?
Julian

[Cribyn]

Hello paj1

Yes, this is an Officers' Mess Waiters' button and a very nice Victorian example indeed! The design on these buttons was almost always a regimental one and not the same as the official army issue.

Incidentally, referring back to post 25, I would suggest that the button with a 'Gaunt London' backmark is a restrike from the 1970s.

Regards
Roger