Few Unknowns From Thames Mud!

[btns]

Originally Posted by A140_Artefacts

btns is the East India Docks button something unusual as I can't find one online? I may be looking in the wrong place but I can't find one on Google?
Phil

It is not particularly rare, but collectors do not know its name.
The ID came from a pattern book, broken up and sold off on e-bay a couple of years ago.

[A140_Artefacts]

You obviously have much better reference material than what I have in my limited library! If it's a button you're interested in when it goes on eBay it will start at 99p so you might get lucky. Thanks for your help.

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

I think the 3rd button is probably "Fire Brigade" but I can't decide what the first letter is meant to be - don't these Gothic letters (or whatever they are called) drive you mad?

As regards the button itself, the backmark doesn't give much away. I would say the button dates from the 1850's at the very earliest but I think it's probably later than that - maybe late 1800's??

David

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

I've been advised by a Fire Service collector that button "3" is from the Metropolitan Fire Brigade, worn until the early 1900's. I think it was Dave who already guessed that. I must admit that it doesn't look much like a "M" to me but I'm only the messenger.

The above period and obviously the location would fit in with the button though.

David

[David Tremain]

Did Deptford have its own fire brigade? If so, it could be Deptford Fire Brigade. depends on which stretch of the Thames it was found, I guess.

David

[btns]

Blackletter (Old English or Gothic) is indeed hard, particularly because there are multiple font variations.
Attached is a button with letters B. & N.A.R.M.
Its letter N is identical to the N.F.B. button.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by btns

Blackletter (Old English or Gothic) is indeed hard, particularly because there are multiple font variations.
Attached is a button with letters B. & N.A.R.M.
Its letter N is identical to the N.F.D. button.

The "NFD" button is actually "MFB" = Metropolitan Fire Brigade. This was the forerunner to the London Fire Brigade.

Dave.

[btns]

Originally Posted by altcar73

The "NFD" button is actually "MFB" = Metropolitan Fire Brigade. This was the forerunner to the London Fire Brigade.
Dave.

The Metropolitan Fire Brigade button has gothic letters M.F.B. and has been drawn by Mr. Denis Darmanin in Button Lines 83, page 23.
I do not have copyright to his image, but I am attaching a Manchester Fire Brigade button with identical letters.

[GTB]

Letters are definitely 'MFB' and tellingly there are no full stops after initials, which may or may not differentiate between Brigades with similar lettering. Will hunt out any research I think I did when obtaining my specimen.

GTB

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

I can't really comment on the "M"/"N" debate but I found the article mentioned by "Btns" and the Metropolitan Fire Brigade button shown is brass and with a "Special Quality" backmark. Worn until 1904 incidentally, which agrees with what my source above advised.

David

[GTB]

With reference to various confusing Gothic/Old English lettering which have subtle differentiating styles that can mislead, I retract what I said concerning the 'MFB' button. It could equably be 'NFB'. I recall a similar polemic concerning RND/RNV buttons.

I am attaching a scan of my MFB button which I have as captioned Metropolitan Fire Brigade, pre-1904; 22mm; backmark 'J. COMPTON. LONDON.'

GTB

[davidwyke]

Why couldn't they just have used capital "NFB" or "MFB" or whatever it may be, it would have avoided a lot confusion a century or so down the line!!

David

[GTB]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Why couldn't they just have used capital "NFB" or "MFB" or whatever it may be, it would have avoided a lot confusion a century or so down the line!!

David

Possibly this style was in vogue, or else gave more class and dignity to the button.

GTB

[A140_Artefacts]

Just been cleaning up the Dragoons button and it has the name I GOOD BIRMINGHAM on the back. Never seen this back stamp before and can find nothing about them online so may help date it perhaps?