Royal Welsh Fusiliers Volunteers Badge

['Ticker' Riley]

Although I’m not particularly active in collecting R.W.F. badges at present, it is one of the regiments that I am interested in because a number of my wife’s family served with them. I have therefore been watching this R.W.F. Volunteer Battalions Badge, and wondered what collectors of Welsh regimental badges thought of this? The seller certainly believes it to be genuine, but does say he couldn’t give “an absolute guarantee” that it is. However, he also quotes from some correspondence he apparently had with the regimental museum back in 1977, where they told him - “The white metal cap badge you have in your collection is that of one of the three Volunteer Battalions which existed in the period 1881 to 1908”. I know that volunteer battalions did have white metal badges, though the examples of the Leicesters ones I’ve seen do actually say “1st Vol Bttn” on them whereas this one doesn’t have anything specific on the badge itself. I’d really be interest to know what the more experienced Forum member thought of this badge - is it pukka or not?

Regards

Martin

[Alan O]

Martin,

VBs are not that well documented and there are a number of variations esp with the change of crowns circa 1901 and the addition of SAfrica Battlehonours circa 1905. As far as the Welsh go you need to ask 41st for a definitive answer. However there were several regts whose VBs had a mix of badge types - some Bns had a specific VB title yet other Bns of the same regt were just in all w/m and had no VB title.

It could be a VB badge but it might be a militia badge or even a post 1908 TF No1 dress hat badge. You would need the dress regulations to be certain.

Alan

[Keith Blakeman]

I know that one of the RWF VB's has the WELCH version of spelling. I don't know whether this encompassed all three VB's though.

Collecting VB's is interesting but very frustrating due to the lack of pictorial information. The first time I've seen some of those I collect is when they appear on ebay or Bosleys and to date I still dont know if the all w/m Queens I have is a 3rd VB or not.

[wardog]

I like his Essex and Norfolk badges but am rather unsure of this rather light coloured mint Household Cavalry badge http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WW1-Household-...item1c12a85f64. Any thoughts? Cheers, Paul.

[41st]

Martin,
The badge is fine and I have one just like it. In fact I have been uploading all my RWF badges over the last week or so and have just started to put together an album for them. There are a lot so it will take a few days.
As to the RWF Vol Battn's there were three that wore their own badge titled 1st, 2nd & 3rd ,examples of these will be posted in my album.
There is also the plain white metal version as in your post.
This also occurs for the Welsh Reg and the SWB where they had numbered badges and also the plain white metal versions.
Current thinking for other collectors of Welsh units is that the plain white metal version was worn for general wear and that the numbered version was worn on walking out dress. Only a theory mind.
The bit that I'm on a loss to explain is what the militia battalions wore. Technically these should be reversed metals and I do have a RWF Militia Officer's Busby badge that is reversed, but I have seen no others and certainly no cap badges to either the Welsh or RWF that would fit. This leaves a slight possability that the all white metal may have been worn by the Militia.
Cofion gorau,
Kevin

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Kevin

Very many thanks indeed for your most interesting and comprehensive reply. I had noticed your new R.W.F. album and had a quick peek last night, but I’ll be sure to keep an eye on it as you upload more pictures - I know Andy (2747andy) also as a R.W.F. album with some nice badges in it. Looks like yours and his together will be a good guide for me for when I start seriously collecting these particular badges, and I especially look forward to seeing all your examples of the volunteer battalions badges with the various titles once you’ve had a chance to add them. Really interesting to read about the theories with regard to the untitled white metal badge, and how this could possibly be for the Militia; which is something Alan also mentioned. This is all great stuff – I’m certainly learning at lot more about the R.W.F. badges!

Best regards

Martin

P.S. My thanks also to Alan (Alan O) and Keith (Keith Blakeman) for their postings, it’s good to have such knowledgeable collectors on the Forum who are so prepared to share things with relative novices like me!

[Alan O]

I have been following this thread with interest as I recently found an all white metal RWF badge in a dealer's shop in London for £6. Its top lug was missing but Dave has done an absolutely superb job of replacing it for which I am very grateful. I don't collect pre-1908 badges by rule but I suspect that if it was Vb then the TF would have retained it for No1 dress afterwards so I shall be hanging onto it.

[41st]

Alan,
That's a theory that is worth looking into.
What we need is everyone to look into the photographic record and post their findings.

['Ticker' Riley]

Hello Alan

Your recent acquisition sounds very interesting, and quite the bargain for £6.00!! I for one would be keen to see your new all white metal R.W.F. badge if at all possible, so wonder if there might be a chance you could post up some pictures of it please? I’d be most grateful if you could, as I could then compare it with the other ones I’ve seen.

Best regards

Martin

[Alan O]

Picture as requested. The top lug is the replacement.

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi Alan

Very many thanks indeed for putting up the pictures of your all-white metal R.W.F. badge – a cracking badge you’ve got there, no wonder you are so pleased! I must admit to being quite envious, especially as you got it for such a bargain price. I see it’s a different style to the one that was on e-bay, and also to Kevin’s example that he has in his album here. I particularly like the strong definition of yours in its flame pattern and the minden rose, which do look to be the same as on Kevin’s White Metal 3rd Volunteer (Carnarvonshire & Anglesey 1897-1908) one here. It’s really good to see the different makers’ variants, and I’ll try and keep my eyes open for one just like it!! Thanks again for posting the photos.

Best regards

Martin