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  #16  
Old 30-05-19, 09:21 AM
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JBBOND JBBOND is offline
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Originally Posted by matti467 View Post
Terminus post quem
terminus ante quem

Like Julian I found myself reading Archaeology at uni and this was one of the first things we learned.

I was taught by the late Mr May MA BA (Oxon)
He was a brilliant linguist who had served his National Service in the RAF at Gatow. He spoke Russian, Czech etc.
The RAF Regiment on the airfield perimeter had to hold the Russians for 5 minutes so they could destroy all the papers and machines in the listening rooms.

Time after which
Time before which
As did I (reading archaeology that is) and I have been working in the "field" for 25 years and still am.
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Jerry
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  #17  
Old 30-05-19, 06:54 PM
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My thanks to Alan who answered my query in Post 5 !


(I use my museum / archaeology experience towards my hobby)
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  #18  
Old 31-05-19, 07:28 AM
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My thanks to Alan who answered my query in Post 5 !


(I use my museum / archaeology experience towards my hobby)
Hi Julian
Was my reply in Post 10 not of any interest ?

Last edited by Jeff Mc William; 31-05-19 at 07:54 AM.
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  #19  
Old 31-05-19, 01:03 PM
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yes, see PM
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  #20  
Old 15-06-19, 09:04 AM
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Hi Julian
The questions you raised re the origins of the Infantry "Torin" cap are, to say the least, problematical as the following illustrations I have dug up would indicate :
It would appear that the earliest version of this undress headwear was adopted by the Royal Marines in the early 1800's Ö if this first image of unknown origin is to be believed. (note this is being worn by an OR).
Certainly, by c.1837, this contemporary painting by Augustus Earle shows an officer wearing such a headdress .. altho' it was then referred to simply as a "Field Service Cap".
The next illustration from Punch (13th May 1854) lampoons the new headdress now adopted by the Guards and called the "Albert Bonnet".
Just exactly when these were finally dubbed the "Torin cap" is still a mystery to me at least, and I would be grateful to anyone who can enlighten me.
The practice of wearing this cap by the remainder of the Infantry (and Cavalry) seems to have been sporadic and gradual from the late 1870's and indeed from various photos I have seen, was often mixed with both the Glengarry and the Austrian Field Service cap in a most unusual and casual manner. Similarly with the badges which were not always worn on the cap and were often derived from collar badges. Regards Jeff

Attachment 207585 Attachment 207586 Attachment 207587
I missed this Jeff and just wanted to add my support to all that youíve said in this post. I reached the exact same conclusion some years ago and was most intrigued when I found the Royal Marineís connection, it appears in a few contemporaneous paintings. Reaching a dead end regarding the ĎToriní descriptor, in desperation I wrote to the National Army Museum to ask formally. I received a reply from a rather bored collections curator who said she didnít know but recommending that I enquire with the Victorian Wars Forum! This did make me chuckle as it was on that forumís behalf that I was enquiring. I/we never did get to the bottom of the Torin moniker, which remains a mystery. Incidentally, one seemingly significant fact that I did discover is that the Torinís usage in the British-Indian Army was by a large margin for much longer than its use by the British Army. It made me wonder if that is where the Torin link lies.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 15-06-19 at 09:26 AM.
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