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  #31  
Old 05-04-15, 12:25 PM
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two more
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  #32  
Old 05-04-15, 12:26 PM
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regards,

Albert.
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  #33  
Old 05-04-15, 12:44 PM
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two dutch nationality titles

regards,

Albert
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  #34  
Old 05-04-15, 01:33 PM
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Default Brabant examples Canadian insignia

There are a couple of Canadian insignia attributed to Brabant style construction. The first is the scarce 1 Canadian Armoured Carrier Regt shoulder titles. These are the style worn by the regiment during operations. The second example is for Army Group Royal Artillery, First Canadian Army. Brabant examples are rare.
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File Type: jpg agra first cdn army brab.jpg (65.2 KB, 32 views)
File Type: jpg 1 cacr armd carrier regt bra.jpg (32.7 KB, 30 views)
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  #35  
Old 05-04-15, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill A View Post
There are a couple of Canadian insignia attributed to Brabant style construction. The first is the scarce 1 Canadian Armoured Carrier Regt shoulder titles. These are the style worn by the regiment during operations. The second example is for Army Group Royal Artillery, First Canadian Army. Brabant examples are rare.
I would place the AGRA as a 'BEVO' badge not a 'Brabant' made one, due to the thin silk type backing and tighter weave.

Marc
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  #36  
Old 05-04-15, 03:30 PM
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Interesting Marc. Is there any indication where that type was made?
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  #37  
Old 05-04-15, 04:12 PM
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Interesting Marc. Is there any indication where that type was made?
Possibly Wuppertal in Germany. Which is the location of the original BeVo Factory, however the term has been applied to most of this type of badge.

There are variations of this type of badge which are not BeVo made but are of a similar manufacture.

Marc

Last edited by 54Bty; 05-04-15 at 04:31 PM.
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  #38  
Old 05-04-15, 04:29 PM
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Marc, your observation had me go back and have another look. Re-examining this, more questions come to the fore. The 1 CACR titles are very similar manufacture to BeVo. They are made on strips of very thin material, in strips, very similar to the AGRA First Cdn Army.
Documentation attributes the 1 CACR titles to the E en E firm; samples titles were returned with the 51st Highland Div signs attached as well.
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  #39  
Old 05-04-15, 04:33 PM
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Marc, a follow up question. Is there a date that the BeVo type material was being manufactured?
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  #40  
Old 05-04-15, 04:39 PM
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Marc, a follow up question. Is there a date that the BeVo type material was being manufactured?
I do not have a date, but, I have been told that it would be after the area was liberated.

After reading a little on the E. en E., site, both Brabant and BeVo are made using the same type of machine developed by a Frenchman called Jacquard, it used a roll of material fed into a weaving machine at the same time a card strip was fed in with a series of holes in the strip the machine extracts the information from the card and weaves a design into the base material.

It looks as though the Germans (BeVo) used a rayon or artificial silk material and the E. en E. (Brabant) version a thicker material. There are a number of Dutch badges (Luc's Album) that were worn through the 1950s, so both the Dutch and German made badges were being worn at the same time.

My thoughts.

Marc

Last edited by 54Bty; 05-04-15 at 06:23 PM.
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  #41  
Old 05-04-15, 05:16 PM
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The reason I asked was that the AGRA formations of the First Cdn Army were disovled very quickly. By the summer of 1945 some of them were struck from the order of battle. That would make a formation patch redundant.
I wonder if Dutch firms (E en E were one, there may have been more in the area) used German material until commerce was reinstated after liberation?
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  #42  
Old 05-04-15, 06:29 PM
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It is likely that collectors have placed badges that have been made from thin material (like your AGRA) in the BeVo category when they should be in a Brabant MkII or just 'silk woven'.

There are a number of Dutch badges that have been made in both styles.

Marc
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  #43  
Old 05-04-15, 07:18 PM
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Default Brabant examples

I am confident that E en E made titles and sleeve patches from both the artificial silk and the more more coarse cotton/linen thread.

As Bill A mentioned, E en E made the 1CACR titles (flimsy silk type), however in the sample provided to the unit as an 'example' was a linen woven British 51 Highland Division sleeve patch.

The 1CACR also acquired some of their 79th Armoured Div patches from E en E.

I my estimation, it is probable that the Heeze mill had many, many looms at their disposable and used whatever material was on hand (I'm sure certain textiles were in short supply at the time). Perhaps only certain colours/quantities of material were only available in rayon or cotton, but not both? perhaps certain styles of titles/patch lent themselves better to different materials. Perhaps a busy production schedule dictated what materials were used?

In 2003, I acquired the 1CACR title that was from the manufacturer's sample book. A book that had been sold to a collector in Rotterdam in 1959. Here is the info I got from original eBay auction (2003) and my follow Q&A with the last owner of the book who sold off individual pieces from it.

Subsequent research in the Armd Carrier Regiment files have verified the information I was initially provided below, as much as it pertains to the 1CACR anyway. Make what you will of the rest of the information. As I had to ask to get the backstory out of the seller, I have no reason to doubt it.


RARE ORIGINAL shoulder flash Armd Carrier Regt Canada
Item number: 6505618519 (2003)

Very rare, ORIGINAL shoulder flash woven of artificial silk. Made in Holland, period November 1944 till May 1945. The shoulder flash was made by a weaving mill near Eindhoven that managed to start up production again after their liberation in late September 1944. Badges were made for a number of allied units that were stationed in the liberated southern part of Holland for recuperation and to receive new equipment. The mill used all kind of materials that they could get their hands on, such as cotton, linen and artificial silk. After May 1945 (capitulation of Germany) when the allied troops were sent home, the mill worked for the Dutch army for a number of years. The shoulder flash comes from an example book once owned by the mill and is in very good condition.

Dear wj_miller,
Hi Bill,the name of the mill was "Van Engelen en Evers", located in Heeze near the city of Eindhoven. The stopped army production somewhere in the late nineteen fifties. I don't know about the existence of photo's, drawings and things like that. My knowledge about the mill was gathered during 40 years of collecting.Between November 1944 and May 1945 the mill produced for the forces of Poland (only a shoulder title), USA (patch 9th Army and rank insignia for officers),Canada (as far as I know the patch of 1st Canadian Army and the on auction shoulder title) and England (about 20 patches and some shoulder titles). Shortly after the war they made some British patches for Control Commission Germany and for the RAC Training Centre BAOR. In November 1944 they also started the production for the "new" Dutch Army. After 1959 no more Dutch Army badges were produced. I hope you'll win the bidding! Regards,

Hi Bill,
thanks for letting me know that you received the shoulder flash in good order! There is always a risk that things get lost in the mail. Also thanks for the information on 1 CACR. About the shoulder flash itself: I bought it right out of the example book some 20 years ago, together with some similar patches made for other units. Did'nt I give you an overview in a previous e mail? The patches I bought were all from allied units, mostly British, the only other Canadian patch in the book was that of 1st Canadian Army. The units that the patches were made for, all were involved in the liberation of the southern part of Holland. I live in that part of the country and the history of what happened there was then my hobby. Now I only collect patches and badges concerning the Dutch Indies (our former colony) 1945-1950. The complete example book was bought direct from the factory by a militaria dealer in Rotterdam. The man was a dear friend and died about seven years ago. About the 79th Armoured Division patch: yes that was made by the mill as well. As a matter of fact I sold a non-cut set a couple of weeks ago!! Enclosed is a scan I made for my own records. Bill, I will do my very best to get more information about the weave mill and as soon as there is any information I sure will let you know. Best regards,


Bill,
here is the attachement of the patch 1st Canadian Army, Dutch production.
The patch is made of cotton. The Dutch type, cotton version, can easily be recognized by the little "holes" in the material. Among Dutch collectors this is called "Brabant weave". Brabant is the province where the town of Heeze is.

Also enclosed is a scan of "officer pips" made by the same mill. The pips are made of linen, four different background colours are known to exist. Do you know what colour was used by officers in the 1 CACR? I think yellow beeing the colour for the RAC.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _1Can_Army patch.jpg (109.5 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg _79AD_pair.jpg (69.2 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg _officers pips.jpg (83.4 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg _1CACR_F.JPG (14.2 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg _1CACR_B.JPG (12.6 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg Tpr Lemon strips2.jpg (37.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg FALLS_79AD_BEVOroll_2.jpg (44.2 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by WJ Miller; 05-04-15 at 10:26 PM.
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  #44  
Old 05-04-15, 08:41 PM
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I was getting there then.

Marc
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  #45  
Old 06-04-15, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
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Many thanks. In your opinion is the formation sign of 14 Polish Armd Bde (page 1) a Brabant production or was it made in Italy? Mike
to weave or weft ?
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File Type: jpg DSCF3905.jpg (123.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF3906.jpg (122.2 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF3907.jpg (119.5 KB, 18 views)
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