Cheshire Regiment

[mtrpltpara]

Cheshire Regiment Badge, the makers mark in use pre 1858, but no date letter

[Toby Purcell]

It seems to me too elaborate to be a bandsmans music case badge so the screw posts suggest that it was probably a SNCO quality cross belt plate badge circa 1837-1854. It would have been secured to a rectangular gilt plate.

[mtrpltpara]

Many Thanks for the reply Toby, would the rectangular plate have been slightly curved to accommodate the badge?
Regards,
Bill.

[Mercian]

It is a Mess Silver badge. This was on eBay awhile back. I have seen a few all damaged except my example. I had no luck with the hall mark.

[mtrpltpara]

That is interesting. James and Nathaniel Creswick were renowned Sheffield silversmiths, I wonder if the silverware is also by them, if so I’d have expected the badge to be soldered on, rather than screw posts.
Regards,
Bill.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Mercian

It is a Mess Silver badge. This was on eBay awhile back. I have seen a few all damaged except my example. I had no luck with the hall mark.

Thank you that makes complete sense and explains the two things that especially puzzled me, the apparent curve and the overt in-your-face positioning of a hallmark. The screw posts seem a rather crude method of fixing on a cup.

[Mercian]

As no year is on the hallmark I have tied to determine the approximate year for the badge. The Canadian Battle Honour was 1758, the three Indian Battle Honours where in 1843. The Queen Victoria head on the Sheffield hallmark stopped in 1890. The 1st battalion were in India as usual, but the 2nd battalion where in Manchester in 1889, then Salford 1890, then a move to Sheffield 1892. So I would guess it's around 1889.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Mercian

As no year is on the hallmark I have tied to determine the approximate year for the badge. The Canadian Battle Honour was 1758, the three Indian Battle Honours where in 1843. The Queen Victoria head on the Sheffield hallmark stopped in 1890. The 1st battalion were in India as usual, but the 2nd battalion where in Manchester in 1889, then Salford 1890, then a move to Sheffield 1892. So I would guess it's around 1889.

Can't give a definite date but some info about the company (James and Nathaniel Creswick) :

It registered further silver marks in Sheffield in 1831 and 1852.

James Creswick, Moorgate, Crookesmoor, died on 14 August 1854, aged 64.

Nathaniel died on 22 November 1855 at his residence East Hill House, Park.

New company :

After 1857, trustees gradually sold most of the stock and plant and tools, but in 1858 a silver mark was registered from Paternoster Row by Creswick & Co.

The above info would seem to indicate that the hallmark/makers mark would be for mid to late 1850's ?

https://hawleysheffieldknives.com/n-...al=cR&kel=1726

.

[mtrpltpara]

I did give a date in the opening post, after Nathaniel passed a new makers mark was adopted 1858, dating the badge pre then. It would have been interesting to know the hallmark on the cup in previous post.
Regards,
Bill.

[Mike H]

I had a look at the silver hallmarks website. Sheffield is very confusing compared to the others.

[Mercian]

So c1858 sounds good.

[Paul Spellman]

Queens head on Sheffield hallmarks changed around 1868 though only slightly.
You would have to judge for yourself with images available
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

Early Victoria middle, middling Victoria right

[mtrpltpara]

Lockdales have another in their upcoming auction Hallmarked with date letter M for 1855, lot 998.It would be interesting to know the hallmark on the actual cup in post 4, might indicate a put together piece rather than manufactured as an item. Photo added by kind permission of Lockdales.
Regards,
Bill.