Mystery metal seal for sealing wax griffon

[Sock Monkey VC]

I found this small reverse carved steel seal (I think) years ago. It measures 22mm across and about 9mm thick. The face features a Griffon I think. Perhaps Wyvern, Dragon, [I should consult my friend Harry]. Anyway, I got some sealing wax today, absolute plasticy garbage, unlike proper sealing wax, and I made the impression seen.

Now occurrunt nubes is latin for meet the clouds. The only reference to that at all on the internet is two words in a poem by a 2nd century poet called Juvenal. No other online references to it at all, not a family motto, nothing.

HEEELP!

[Home Guard]

Sorry, I can't help beyond this.

Griffin
A hybrid of a lion and eagle. It normally has the body, tail, and back legs of a lion; the head and wings of an eagle; and an eagle’s talons as its front feet. It can also have long ears, and the ears are how you recognise a griffin from its head only. Griffin has two alternative spellings that you may see elsewhere, ‘griffon’ and ‘gryphon’. We only use ‘griffin’ on the PAS database, to allow easy searches.

Wyvern
A wyvern looks like a dragon (i.e. reptilian), but it has only two legs. With two legs and two wings, they can look rather like birds, but their long tails, often curled into a circle like dragons’ tails, can give them away. They also should have reptilian heads, with jaws instead of a beak. Many animals currently recorded as ‘dragon’ on the PAS database are in fact wyverns.

Terry

[Sock Monkey VC]

From the flatbed scanner. Griffin. Looks like he has a snake in his mouth too. Why not?

[btns]

I think it is a family crest.
https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages...6&name=Elliott

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by btns

I think it is a family crest.
https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages...6&name=Elliott

William Eliot, 2nd Earl of St Germans (1 April 1767 – 19 January 1845), known as William Elliot until 1823, was a British diplomat and politician.

His motto was Occurrunt nubes : Clouds will intervene.


.

[Sock Monkey VC]

Excellent. So I'm thinking less about seals and more about dies for stamping buttons, buckles, silverware. Being square I don't think 'buttons' any more. Being "negative" it would serve as a printing block so, stationary perhaps.

Thanks for the help.

[High Wood]

Posts like this are why I love this forum, so many helpful, knowledgeable people willing to help solve these little puzzles. Well done.

Incidentally, I think it belongs in a letter head press for stamping crests onto writing paper.

[Sock Monkey VC]

That would make sense. There are some jaw marks on the edges of this, likely showing that it has been clamped in some device by it's sides. The face of it is ever so slightly convex so again, likely. The engraving is deeper than need be to retain printers ink I would have thought but I suppose a hand engraver wouldn't always bother to "keep it shallow".

I think we might have it.

[High Wood]

The presses turn up at local auctions quite regularly, often with the crest thingy still inside, because, lets face it people don't write on crested paper any more.

[btns]

As High Wood made clear, it is for a dry stamp, i.e. no ink involved.

[grey_green_acorn]

Something like this when embossed on note paper or envelopes:

Tim

[Sock Monkey VC]

NTXT