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  #1  
Old 16-03-19, 10:37 AM
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Default The Wolseley Sun Helmet

I have a few of these and I'll add them one at a time.


Officers Private purchase example made by Hawkes & Co, dating to sometime between 1917 and 1930ish.

Has a coloured pug flash thought to be for the South Lancashire Regiment.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p 1.jpg (44.7 KB, 88 views)
File Type: jpg p 2.jpg (40.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg p 3.jpg (40.2 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg p 4.jpg (46.0 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg p 5.jpg (52.3 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg p 6.jpg (52.7 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg p 7.jpg (38.7 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg p 8.jpg (42.2 KB, 46 views)
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Old 16-03-19, 10:43 AM
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That's nice, the nearest I've got to a decent Wolseley is the usual - a RM Other Ranks, with an early 1960's dated sweatband.

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 16-03-19 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Typo
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  #3  
Old 16-03-19, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
That's nice, the nearest I've got to a decent Wolesley is the usual - a RM Other Ranks, with an early 1960's dated sweatband.
Thanks Leigh, it is my fave and probably the best one I have.
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Old 16-03-19, 01:34 PM
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Other ranks by Failsworth Hats LTD, with WD arrow and letter P for issue 1941, converted to officer use by removing the cloth trim and replacing it with a leather trim. The extra row of holes where the original trim was removed can be clearly seen and of course the issue WD markings should not usually be seen on an officer pith.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg or to officer conversion 1.jpg (33.5 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg or to officer conversion 2.jpg (32.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg or to officer conversion 3.jpg (41.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg or to officer conversion 5.jpg (47.5 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg or to officer conversion 4.jpg (47.4 KB, 26 views)
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Old 16-03-19, 01:42 PM
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That's an interesting adaptation, did it originally have a stitched on "fake" pagri?
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Old 16-03-19, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
That's an interesting adaptation, did it originally have a stitched on "fake" pagri?
Not sure, it is a bit loose and I don't want to mess with it.

Next is this 1940 date OR's by Helmets LTD.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ors 1940 2.jpg (40.2 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg ors 1940 1.jpg (38.4 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg ors 1940 3.jpg (40.4 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg ors 1940 4.jpg (33.3 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg ors 1940 5.jpg (47.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg ors 1940 6.jpg (66.1 KB, 22 views)
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Old 03-10-20, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
I have a few of these and I'll add them one at a time.


Officers Private purchase example made by Hawkes & Co, dating to sometime between 1917 and 1930ish.

Has a coloured pug flash thought to be for the South Lancashire Regiment.
I did some research on this, the flash for the south lancs;

1st Bn in India from before 1914 and all the way through until 1919 in India.

2nd bn not abroad until 1939.

6th service bn, gallipoli 1915, egypt 1916, mesopotamia 1916-18,

9th bn, Macedonia 1915-18

I would think 1st bn in India is most likely as 1917 seems to be the date of inception of the hawkes helmet liner system and therefore cannot be earlier than then and Earl Cromer was in India during this period and shortly after the war until 1921 who owned an identical wolseley sun helmet, the only other example I remember seeing of this type by Hawkes.

It is of course possible a replacement officer in the 6th in Mesopotamia or the 9th in Macedonia from 1917 on was the owner.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p 1.jpg (44.7 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg p9.jpg (102.1 KB, 4 views)
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  #8  
Old 04-10-20, 09:50 AM
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further research (which I think had previously been imparted to me on the forum but I cannot find) and more recently from Stuart Bates to me.

2nd Bn;

The old regiments.org gives the following deployment of the 2nd Battalion for the period -


1920 Palestine
1922.10 India: Mhow
1925 Presidency/Assam
1927 Jubbulpore
1930 Landi Kotal
1930 NW Frontier
1933 Allahabad
1936 Quetta

"The 1929 Clothing regulations are shown in the attachment. However, given other variations John Mollo states that "Another patch attributed to the 2nd Battalion in 1929, 3" x 1&7/8", is divided vertically into three equal stripes, crimson, old gold and dark blue. Therefore it may be safe to assume that this flash was superseded by the 1929 regs." My patch is 3" x 1 & 3/4"

the 1929 regs state;

"Khaki cloth patch 3" x 2" with a white sphinx embroidered thereon"

It seems 1929 is correct and in fact possibly only used in 1929!

Can't beat research
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Last edited by JerryBB; 04-10-20 at 11:08 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-10-20, 12:58 PM
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These type of grosgrain strip material Pagri flashes are quite late, 1930s into WW2, to my understanding. The certainly do not appear in the 1920s or earlier.

CB
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  #10  
Old 05-10-20, 09:15 AM
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thanks.

the helmet is from sometime after 1917, the patent date, but knowing when they stopped making this type is not known, the only other I know of dates to before 1921.

Perhaps he used an older helmet when he was sent abroad with 2bn s.lancs or changed his flash as needed, or they manufactured this model for a long time.
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Old 05-10-20, 11:34 AM
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Here is the label in my example dated 1940. There are no WD marks though.
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File Type: jpg Wolseley 013.jpg (63.1 KB, 7 views)
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  #12  
Old 05-10-20, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
thanks.

the helmet is from sometime after 1917, the patent date, but knowing when they stopped making this type is not known, the only other I know of dates to before 1921.

Perhaps he used an older helmet when he was sent abroad with 2bn s.lancs or changed his flash as needed, or they manufactured this model for a long time.
Yes, the helmet itself is certainly an earlier model. The flash must have been utilized at a much later time, which is of course quite possible.
A very nice example by the way!
CB
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