Robin Hoods 7th Batt Notts and Derby

[sean michael cronin]

One of my favourites, a bi metal N.C.O.'s badge, next to it an all brass version. If you are trying to find an original here are a couple of points worth noticing. On the reproductions including the Gaunt B'ham varieties the out line of the cross is a lot narrower and the raised bugle and crown in the centre is much flatter than on these originals.

[Mike]

nice.. your pic reminded me of this.... the 17th Btn london Regt - this is a copy. the rectangular tablet under the crown should extend out further into the wreath blocking out that space, the bow at the base of the wreath is poorly defined. and the wreath itself is to "bushy"

I have a feeling your observations on the robin hoods badge may apply to this copy aswell.

[Keith Blakeman]

I've never seen the bi-metal pattern before, really nice. I've a couple of interesting Robin Hoods too....a small Field Service Cap Badge/collar, a blackened nickel version with an unusual Gaunt brand more often seen on OSD bronze badges and finally a nickel plated brass one with the 'safe' Gaunt brand. The reason for the nickel plating I've been told signifies the regiments' conversion to armour during WW2??

Also attached a couple of 17th London's, one where the tablet is actually surrounded by the wreath and the more normal 'long tablet' pattern.

[sean michael cronin]

Your badges look fine to me, be aware of placing to much emphasis on named sliders. Think about it if you can produce a copy of the badge, how hard would it be, to stamp a makers name on the slider. In the 1980's someone supplied me with a copy of a a publication from the Military Historical Society, I think the auther was called Archer, he described the different Gaunt stampings, but also gave points on brazing holes and stampings, written at a time when shortages in badges first appeared and gaps were filled with reproductions from Gaunts or total fakes. Alas years later and after a few x's, I no longer have the knowledge. Just as a matter of interest, as collectors we are fascinated/dogged by Gaunt fakes, but as a manufacturer Guants don't seem to give a toss.

[Peter Brydon]

I have all the editions of the M.H.S. Bulletin and dont think they ever produced a list of the Gaunt stampings etc ( I may be wrong ) but I think you are referring to Laurence V. Archer ( if you look in Kipling and King you will see he is credited as the designer of the book- inside rear cover )

Laurence dealt in badges and included on his lists, badges that were known to have been reproduced and how they could be spotted. I seem to think this was in the 1970s or 1980s.

Unfortunatly I no longer have any of his lists.

P.B.

[KLR]

Just to clarify earlier postings, The Robin Hoods wore a blackened brass cap badge during WW1. The white metal cap badge was never blackened but worn as is from the 1930s. There was no senior NCOs bi metal cap badge at any time. Pre 1895 officers wore a peaked pork-pie style cap with a bullion badge of uncrowned RHR (first R reversed). Other ranks wore a black glengarry cap with an uncrowned blackened brass bugle horn badge. There are examples of all these (on caps and mounted on badge display boards) in Nottingham Castle Museum, together with shako plates, helmet plates, pouch plates, pouch belt plates, waist belt clasps, whistles and bosses and, of course, tunics. There are also corresponding shakos, helmets, pouches and belts and a rare sabretache with badge worn by the Adjutant from 1859. When I decided to put together a comprehensive collection of the unit I obtained items from, literally, all over the world and it was always destined for the one place it should go - where the first 6 volunteers mustered in 1859 I am pleased that I gave it to the Castle rather than to the Regimental Museum which, like so many, has suffered from lack of funding in recent years - together with the affect of political correctness in many left-wing controlled authorities. Shame on them ! Regards. David

The silver and gilt badge is definitely officers and dates from the post WW1 period. The construction is cast, as in the case of the silver and silver plated examples, not die struck. The silver and gilt badge was experimental and used for a very short period - it actually conflicted with other items worn which were always silver, silver plate or white metal. I believe that the idea of it being an NCOs badge is an assumption (maybe taken from Scottish regiment examples) and is not based upon factual knowledge. In all my research on the Robin Hoods nothing indicated the existence of a uniquely NCOs cap badge. Incidentally, there were also matching collar badges and the practice of wearing one as a field service cap badge (by officers only) is also evidenced. Now if someone were to come up with a die struck bi-metal cap badge, that would be interesting - and quite new to me ! Regards. David

[erracht]

Here's my Robin Hoods badge - sad its not officer's, but like you say an all-round sharp badge!!

Dean

[Jibba Jabba]

Thats a nice badge!

I have noted all of the following kings crown badges and have ranked them them in order of rarity (my opinion). Regardless it is and was a tough badge to find even when there were at least four big dealers operating in Nottingham.

1. Silver
2. Blackened white metal
3. Black
4. White Metal

There is also a Queens Crown worn in 1961 by the T.A.

[Deejayuu]

Can i throw another contender into the ring. Doubt this is the first pattern as i am sure there is a QVC equvilant as well as VRC predecessors but this badge certainly predates the post 1908 TA badges.

[matti467]

If anyone is interested i can shed a little light on this badge. After I left the Royal Signals I was coerced by my old RSM to go and work with A company Notts ACF who, in 1994/5 were badged to the Rodin Hoods in A/A. However, the cadets were in W/M whilst adults painted theirs black. I hated the way that they chipped after painting and did a rather serious job with the old humbrol and airfix varnish. In my peaked cap I wore a K/C silvered badge that I still have and sold a K/C blackened with JR Gaunt cartouche a couple of years ago. Hope that is useful. P.s. you don't half get some stick about bows and arrows and when commissioned was glad to be a 'Duke'.

[Sonofacqms]

There was also a bi-metal KC badge which I believe to have been worn by senior NCO's.

As to title, the RV unit raised in 1859 was The Robin Hood Rifles and they retained their title through the Administrative Bn. and Volunteer Bn. period until 1908 when their name changed to The Robin Hoods. They had, in all but title, been the 3rd VB Sherwood Foresters and became, of course, 7th TA Bn. Sherwood Foresters post 08. The cap badges were 1. An imperial crown RHR (first R reversed) 2. A King's crown RHR (first R reversed) and the Kings crown version posted with the bugle horn. After 08 we moved to the Rifle Brigade style. Officers wore silver, silver plate or silver and gilt. Other ranks wore blackened brass, white metal and then anodised aluminium. There were corresponding collar badges for all types post 1908 but no collar badges pre 08. The comprehensive collection of badges, uniforms and accoutrements to this unit I gave to Nottingham Castle Museum in the late 1970s. As someone has already said, a wonderful unit with a proud history. regards. David

[engr9266]

I am sure that I read somewhere(R E magazine?) that The Robin Hood Rifles became a Royal Engineer unit-350 Field Squadron, during one of the many shake up's of the TA during the Fiftys/Sixtys. They wore the Robin Hood cap badge, RE collar dogs and lanyard and were used in the searchlight role. What became of them after this I do not know. Regards Jerry.

Hello Jerry - You are absolutely right - The Robin Hoods became a RE searchlight battery but somewhat earlier than the 50s/60s. They then went into a cadre formation until the TAVR reorganisation in 1971 when they were reduced to company size as D Coy 3rd Bn. Worcestershire & Sherwood Foresters Regt. The Robin Hoods cap badge was worn until it was forcibly removed in about 1973 and replaced with the WFR cap badge. Regards. David

[matti467]

Here are a couple of pictures of my blackened WM A/A cap badge from 1995/6ish. The badge is by Smith and Wright Ltd. Worn in a rifle green beret.