RAF peaked cap with red band.

[tonyb]

I watched a program on the BBC last night about Sir Winston Churchill's funeral, the party escorting the coffin included what I assume to be RAF personnel. I noticed they wore peaked caps with a red band, something I've not seen before.
Can anyone help identify?
Thanks Tony.

[Snowdrop 68]

Could they be apprentices? I know they wore different coloured hat bands.

Just a thought,

Bill

[Hussar100]

Queen's Colour Sqn perhaps? Very skilled at drill.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

Could they be apprentices? I know they wore different coloured hat bands.

Just a thought,

Bill

This link suggests you are correct.

It's jogged my memory too. when my brother was an RAF Apprentice in 1965 he had a red and white chequered band on his SD cap. I believe that's called "Sillitoe Tartan".

EDIT: This guy's recollections support the theory. Under "Wings and Squadrons".

[Snowdrop 68]

Another good li nk ( images are a bit small though)

http://29-30.weebly.com/hatbands.html

Bill

[tonyb]

Thanks for the leads chaps found this link to the Daily Telegraph, ref RAF apprentices at Churchill's funeral.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/l...me-leader.html
Cheers Tony.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by tonyb

Thanks for the leads chaps found this link to the Daily Telegraph, ref RAF apprentices at Churchill's funeral.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/l...me-leader.html
Cheers Tony.

Excellent - diagnosis confirmed!

[Mike B]

Taking a bit of a 'flyer' on this one - I found an extract "Reorganisation of the Apprentice and Boy Entrant schemes made changes to locations and AMO A27/1953 cancelled the 1947 details and introduced a new colour scheme. In addition this new AMO laid down the use of coloured discs to be worn on berets. It appears that at this time the use of solid colours for Apprentices and chequered bands for Boy Entrants became the norm" -

Red appears to be No1 Wing Apprentices - No1 School of Technical Training - RAF Halton. (No2 Wing being light blue and No3 Wing being orange (golden yellow))

Other colours were worn at RAF Locking and RAF St Athan etc

The Red disc and band was retained at No1 School of Technical Training - RAF Halton 1965/74 for No.1 Wing.

It also appears the red disc (and possibly band) was worn at No2 School of Technical Training - RAF Cosford - 1965/73

Also

possibly at RAF Swinderby

The above information has been extracted from "Hat Bands of the Royal Air Force" by David Parsons - 2005.


I hope this helps, even though perhaps a bit confusing

Mike

[Alex Rice]

Question:
Although I'm sure the gent in Bill's (Snowdrop) photo is genuine, why would somebody with 3 good conduct stripes, which is I think at least 12 years of service, be an apprentice? Did he retrain for some reason or did instructors also wear the apprentice badge?
Cheers,
Alex

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike B

Taking a bit of a 'flyer' on this one - I found an extract "Reorganisation of the Apprentice and Boy Entrant schemes made changes to locations and AMO A27/1953 cancelled the 1947 details and introduced a new colour scheme. In addition this new AMO laid down the use of coloured discs to be worn on berets. It appears that at this time the use of solid colours for Apprentices and chequered bands for Boy Entrants became the norm" -

Red appears to be No1 Wing Apprentices - No1 School of Technical Training - RAF Halton. (No2 Wing being light blue and No3 Wing being orange (golden yellow))

Other colours were worn at RAF Locking and RAF St Athan etc

The Red disc and band was retained at No1 School of Technical Training - RAF Halton 1965/74 for No.1 Wing.

It also appears the red disc (and possibly band) was worn at No2 School of Technical Training - RAF Cosford - 1965/73

Also

possibly at RAF Swinderby

The above information has been extracted from "Hat Bands of the Royal Air Force" by David Parsons - 2005.


I hope this helps, even though perhaps a bit confusing

Mike

You can add the RAF Apprentices College, Hereford to that - they wore the red and white Sillitoe variation. That's where my older brother went as a boy entrant in 1965.

[Mike B]

Hello Hussar and all

It is interesting your brother went to RAF Credinhill (Hereford) - there is in deed a note in David Parson's booklet that it was home of No3 School of Technical Training - 1963/73 - and that the band was red/white chequered, with 2 inch red beret disc.

My previous post only covers establishments with 'solid red cap band' as portrayed in the photographs posted (Sir Winston Churchill Funeral etc).

As far as red and white chequered cap bands are concerned - it appears other establishments (in addition to RAF Credinhill (Hereford)) may have worn a red and white chequered bands at some stage - for example, it is possible No4 School of Technical Training, RAF St Athan - could have worn a red and white chequered band circa 1950.

This is not an area I know anything about - so my observations (taken from David Parson's notes) are only posted in case other members wish to explore further.

Mike

[ebro]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Question:
Although I'm sure the gent in Bill's (Snowdrop) photo is genuine, why would somebody with 3 good conduct stripes, which is I think at least 12 years of service, be an apprentice? Did he retrain for some reason or did instructors also wear the apprentice badge?
Cheers,
Alex

Alex,
In the photo, along with the apprentices with their red bands, there appears to be a sergeant, possibly an instructor, who does not have a red band.
Eddie

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Mike B

Hello Hussar and all

It is interesting your brother went to RAF Credinhill (Hereford) - there is in deed a note in David Parson's booklet that it was home of No3 School of Technical Training - 1963/73 - and that the band was red/white chequered, with 2 inch red beret disc.

My previous post only covers establishments with 'solid red cap band' as portrayed in the photographs posted (Sir Winston Churchill Funeral etc).

As far as red and white chequered cap bands are concerned - it appears other establishments (in addition to RAF Credinhill (Hereford)) may have worn a red and white chequered bands at some stage - for example, it is possible No4 School of Technical Training, RAF St Athan - could have worn a red and white chequered band circa 1950.

This is not an area I know anything about - so my observations (taken from David Parson's notes) are only posted in case other members wish to explore further.

Mike

It wasn't anything I had information at hand for Mike. It's just as the discussion developed I remembered his hat band - he'd worn his uniform home on leave and left his SD cap behind by mistake - us younger kids had fun with it while he had to pay the QM (or whatever the RAF had) for a new one.

It was actually a sad time for us because all of this happened after his pass-off leave and whilst he was on his way back to England on the boat our father passed away and he was met by the Monkeys at Liverpool and put on the next boat home. His head was probably everywhere.

After all of this he was posted to El Adem and we didn't see him for five years. He took all his leave elsewhere during what was probably a voyage of discovery.

He did 30 years in total btw and is now Director RAFA for Northern Ireland!

Originally Posted by ebro

Alex,
In the photo, along with the apprentices with their red bands, there appears to be a sergeant, possibly an instructor, who does not have a red band.
Eddie

I'd say that would be normal as only the apprentices would need to be identified as such. Senior NCO's would probably have had a lot to say to the SWO if the establishment had tried to make them wear red hat bands too as it would identify them incorrectly as recruits. You know what old hands are like with regards to their seniority!

[Alex Rice]

Originally Posted by ebro

Alex,
In the photo, along with the apprentices with their red bands, there appears to be a sergeant, possibly an instructor, who does not have a red band.
Eddie

Hi Ebro
No, I was referring to the second portrait photo of the corporal with the apprentice badge.
Cheers,
Alex