25th Dragoons badges.

[spreadeagle]

Here's a few 25th Dragoons badges I've picked up over the last year.
There's an Indian made composite badge with no lugs,and a silver lugged badge which has has cut away scrolls.
The all brass badge looks pretty iffy,but I've never seen one like it before.
Cheers.
Al

[Frank Kelley]

The second example is superb, a great shame the slider is missing.

Originally Posted by spreadeagle

Here's a few 25th Dragoons badges I've picked up over the last year.
There's an Indian made composite badge with no lugs,and a silver lugged badge which has has cut away scrolls.
The all brass badge looks pretty iffy,but I've never seen one like it before.
Cheers.
Al

[Marcus H]

Hi Alan,

The first example is in lovely condition, the “silvered” (zinc wash perhaps?) copper lugs look pristine.

Seaman, refers to this pattern as a collar, although I am aware it was untilised as an arm badge centre in addition* - either totally silvered and the bi-metal badge. However, I am yet to discover this pattern with a slider, not that excludes the possibility of it being worn in the head-dress; no, far from it, in my opinion.

This very distinct pattern is actually just smaller in its overall size compared to the all other ORs Indian made patterns.

It also, to date, has no known full-scroll counterpart - if anyone owns one, I would love to see it. There are very, very similar badges in construction and seemingly in the scroll details, too. Yet, on close inspection of the scroll furls, the numerals, lettering and the important ‘TH’ differences, they aren’t the same.

• Four of the seven ‘known’ Indian made patterns concerning ORs cap/collar badges, several of these badges shown were used as arm badge centres, too, by either altering the crown size, leaving the elongated blade tips, or absolutely no embellishments in the badge form. There exist within the picture ‘variations’ to a pattern, some are less obvious in crown types, or that they have sliders opposed to lugs - several are not shown, nor are the Gaunt emulation, Chatur Bihari & Bros and Eden examples.https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=155943

• A quick example: these are the same pattern as in row two, the very same specimen design patten actually that was sent to the UK for approval. Here we see a slidered version with a small crown, the larger crowned example is an arm badge centre; the same crown was used in conjunction with the first row pattern sometimes on arm badges.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=155944

* Both arm badges I know of adorning this badge are directly fixed (soldered) to the backing plate, one of which I own - not yet shown in my album.

The second badge unfortunately missing it’s slider is what I call the “Gaunt emulation.” This is a good period badge, which was cast evidently from the UK Gaunt produced badge.

Here are a few of my observations and pictures concerning this pattern: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...t=31471&page=4


Lastly, the third badge (and again the middle badge in last group picture) is in my opinion contemporary - i.e. fake.

This damn thing comes in several forms from mostly die-stamped to rather crude cast versions. This is a badge based on the UK produced Gaunt die badge, and I’ve seen it with sliders and lugs; even with sweat holes added. Plus, various maker marks (Firmin, Smith & Wright, etc) can be found on such badges. Also, I suspect some being original slider conversions, as I have seen such period Firmin marked sliders on Gaunt die re-strike cum fake 22D OR badges.

The less subtle indication on this one is the unfinished overlay, but they also dangerously come correctly finished exposing the sabre blades where appropriate. The crown, the numerals, etc, etc, are all incorrect in detail for what it attempts to portray.

These fakes are two-a-penny on eBay, right now. They do tend to vary in condition and in the definition of the detail, many of the more recently made (or so I would deem) examples displaying a flaw in the scroll rim below the ‘25th.’

Best,

Marcus

[spreadeagle]

Hello Marcus,
Thanks very much for the detailed information on the the badges,it's much appreciated.
The brass badge is pretty much what I expected it to be,given it's poor definition and footed lugs. I haven't seen one like it listed on eBay,but no doubt now that it's validity has been highlighted they'll be appearing more often in my searches.
I'm glad to hear the badge with the cut out scrolls is probably a collar badge,as that's another item I can chalk off the wants list.
Thanks again.
Cheers.
Al

[Keith Blakeman]

Looks very much like one I once had which had been varnished, a dip in Nitromors took the overlay right off to reveal a poorly detailed rear section.

[Marcus H]

Nitromors, Keith lol Christ, I thought I was being harsh with Fairy and a good scub with a tooth brush. ;-)

If this link works, this is the same pattern as your fake, Alan.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F153098731258

Same again, but a more recent strike guise:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F283063830291

This one is cast from the ‘Gaunt emulation’ badge:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323341581266

[Marcus H]

Genuine Gaunt unmarked badge to the left, on the right is the fake - in both pictures.

Obverse: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=155960

Reverse: https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=155959

[spreadeagle]

Hello Marcus,
Apologies for the delay.
Thanks again for the detailed expansion on the fake brass badge. I was looking out for one with a similar N/ S lugged construction,but they don't seem to be as common as I expected,hence my reservation about it. Mine came from eBay along with some WW2 buttons.
Cheers.
Al