MOTTO MOTTO

[monty]

Morning Griff.Here you go my friend I have done as you have asked.
Second time out on the forum for this motto.
I bought it via E..y auction around 12 years ago.It came with a 1970s chrome alloy motto the type of thing bikers put on there cut offs.It had a very common soft lead solder repair that had been done many years before.I think from memory I paid around £20.00 for the two items other people had bid so I did not have it all my way.The slide fixing is a vintage one.Restored.Me & the restorer both agreed it was OK.
I am not out to pull the wool over any ones eyes.Have a good look at the badge.I am not right on many things so make your own minds up.
Thank you Gary

[manchesters]

Gary,

I am not a Motto expert but to my eyes there is no chance that it is an original badge.

Not withstanding the metal colour, its got typical repro worn features lacking in any detail to the front.

regards

[monty]

More Pic`s

[GriffMJ]

Yes..... everyone will go... "Its not genuine!!"...... BUT....hold on.... lets see. Thank you Monty..... I shall do some work on the images

For the time being ...see here http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=3209

[monty]

I have put it in here again more for Griff,He as you know is very interested in this subject.Thank for the comments about colour.Bear in mind once you put heat on a badge the original patina go`s out the window.I excepted the original take that it was not right so not out to prove anything.

[GriffMJ]

I dont know if you can do it Monty..... but can you do a "Macro" image of the area I have highlighted? If you cant can you see two flaws that i have shown in the white metal?

* There is a third... that I think I can see on the brass..... a stress crack.... that I also show on the white metal as a starting "notch".

[GriffMJ]

Here is what I can see from your supplied images...compared to one of my white metals (I have three like this).

[GriffMJ]

This is one of my white metals that is identical to this brass motto that Monty has. As you can see.... its is fine boned..... very crisp ....with sharp inset eye sockets that go down to a point. All the die flaws in the male image match the brass. I have two others like this.... one with a crimped slider.

[GriffMJ]

As you can see.... the brass has polished high points compared to the white metal that is from the same die.

[GriffMJ]

My three white metals from the same die as Monty's brass.... if these are fakes/copies..... they are top quality?

[grenadierguardsman]

From the back the eye sockets look good as does " or glory ", but the front looks to buffed/worn down to me. IMHO
Andy

[GriffMJ]

Does this one look too polished Andy

[manchesters]

The original badge shown has not IMHO been worn down by polishing, it is worn down from a poor over-used die/press etc.

The motto you show in the previous post has deliberate polishing.

The quality of the original motto is extremely poor and has I feel been reproduced from the original dies, whose badges you display.

regards

[GriffMJ]

They are not "poor"..... for copies they are very good.... excellent in fact. I have collected them because of this.... and Monty's brass motto is the first I have seen from this die.

There are other brass mottoes out there from the "Jelly Mould" copies...see below:-



Wm. Fake Firmin Motto
Also found in brass (slider and loops)

Features:-

a) Rounded jelly mold appearance, given away by the rounded hip ends.
b) Remnants of the scar on the forehead.
c) Line scores in the ribbon end (not seen in the genuine article).
d) unmarked slider that is not a Firmin production (different tapered types are also used on this copy).
e) Grinding marks on the back edges of the badge.
f) Bottom teeth bottom edge is not clean and straight.
g) Different sliders, unmarked, fitted.

[Alex Rice]

My only comment would be that the rear has quite nice crisp detail while the front, to me anyway, looks like it has 'polish-wear' rather than a worn die. Why brass though, I have no idea.
Just a thought...