British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Headdress

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-09-20, 08:33 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default Beret WWII or Postwar

A question for the forum please.

I have assumed that an internal flap covering the badge lugs/slider was a post-war addition to the beret design, am I right or did some wartime berets have the flap?

Thank you for looking, Keith
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FullSizeRender.jpg (71.4 KB, 64 views)
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-09-20, 09:35 PM
Irv's Avatar
Irv Irv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Freshwater IOW
Posts: 691
Default

RM blue berets had the half moon card behind the badge. Don’t know about others.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-09-20, 05:34 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irv View Post
RM blue berets had the half moon card behind the badge. Don’t know about others.
I suspect the half-moon badge backing was unique to Royal Marines berets and the beret, subject of this thread, is post-war.
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-09-20, 10:41 PM
arnhem2280 arnhem2280 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by popskipa View Post
I suspect the half-moon badge backing was unique to Royal Marines berets and the beret, subject of this thread, is post-war.
Just out of interest apart from the one comment on the forum do you have any solid reasons for your suspicion ?

I'd be interested to hear.

Cheers

Arnhem
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13-09-20, 03:58 AM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnhem2280 View Post
Just out of interest apart from the one comment on the forum do you have any solid reasons for your suspicion ?

I'd be interested to hear.

Cheers

Arnhem
I have seen many berets but not previously noted an internal flap on a wartime example, but I have seen the flap on post-war berets.

My post was to find evidence of other wartime berets with the flap and Irv pointed out that the Royal Marines beret had an internal flap covering the badge lugs.

I hope my post will promote discussion amongst collectors about the flap and obtain a definitive answer.

I should add that while I remain sceptical and suspect that, with the exception of the marine beret, the flap was a post-war design feature I have no evidence to subtaintiate my theory so welcome the opinions of collectors who have more experience in this field than me.
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…

Last edited by popskipa; 13-09-20 at 09:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13-09-20, 10:16 AM
Irv's Avatar
Irv Irv is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Freshwater IOW
Posts: 691
Default

I’ve not see any army berets with the half moon stiffer. The WW2 green beret that the RM used had none but the post war issue did. That’s because they went with the same pattern of their blue berets. During WW2 RM were using an army contract to get their green berets. After the war when the army commando units disbanded the RM had to make their own order and just went with the same design as the blue beret but in a different colour.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13-09-20, 05:32 PM
silverwash's Avatar
silverwash silverwash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 391
Default

officer private purchase WW2 berets can be found with this type of " protector "
__________________
" the art of collecting badges, darker'n a black steer's tookus on a moonless prairie night "
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14-09-20, 03:34 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
officer private purchase WW2 berets can be found with this type of " protector "
Thank you all for the information.

Silverwash - I am not familiar with the private purchase berets and have a few questions. Which colour berets have you seen please, beige, black, blue, maroon, green, khaki? Were there any maker's markings or dates? Leather edged or fabric? Do they all have the "protector" flap?

Thank you
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…

Last edited by popskipa; 14-09-20 at 05:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14-09-20, 11:04 PM
silverwash's Avatar
silverwash silverwash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 391
Default

will dig out a couple and take pics.
__________________
" the art of collecting badges, darker'n a black steer's tookus on a moonless prairie night "
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15-09-20, 05:02 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
will dig out a couple and take pics.
Thank you, I look forward to the images...
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16-09-20, 10:16 AM
Luc's Avatar
Luc Luc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posts: 2,597
Default

Mine is dated 1945, but with a much bigger stiffener than the one shown.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16-09-20, 10:53 AM
silverwash's Avatar
silverwash silverwash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 391
Default

attributed to WW2 serving officers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF0267.jpg (48.0 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0268.jpg (56.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF0269.jpg (48.5 KB, 27 views)
__________________
" the art of collecting badges, darker'n a black steer's tookus on a moonless prairie night "
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16-09-20, 01:20 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
attributed to WW2 serving officers.
Thank you.

Is the attribution and possibly the outfitter details the only way of knowing WWII vintage?

Keith
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 16-09-20, 05:25 PM
silverwash's Avatar
silverwash silverwash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 391
Default

unfortunately for me in this case, yes. none of them have a date which I would not expect to see with a " private purchase " example. a bit like officers SD, the only clue to date something being the outfitters / tailors label. the only caveat is that the issue of these things did not stop at the end of the war so no silver bullet. I do have an officers SD cap with the original receipt of purchase but is of no help in this case. on a tangent I contacted Gieves & Co. years ago for information about their wartime trading but was advised that their archives had been destroyed. why are things in life not simple !
__________________
" the art of collecting badges, darker'n a black steer's tookus on a moonless prairie night "
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17-09-20, 12:32 PM
popskipa's Avatar
popskipa popskipa is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwash View Post
unfortunately for me in this case, yes. none of them have a date which I would not expect to see with a " private purchase " example. a bit like officers SD, the only clue to date something being the outfitters / tailors label. the only caveat is that the issue of these things did not stop at the end of the war so no silver bullet. I do have an officers SD cap with the original receipt of purchase but is of no help in this case. on a tangent I contacted Gieves & Co. years ago for information about their wartime trading but was advised that their archives had been destroyed. why are things in life not simple !
Thank you.

To summarise, with the exception of the Royal Marines beret, wartime berets with the internal badge flap protection are private purchase and not issue items. Furthermore there are no specific pattern features or materials used so the only way to determine a wartime private purchase beret (with or without the internal badge flap) is provenance and/or knowledge of the outfitter's trading dates. Without either of these determining factors the dating of the beret would be pure speculation or guess work.
__________________
I collect to the special forces units of WWII. Especially those deployed in North Africa, the Aegean and Mediterranean theatre. Also the WWI campaign in the Hejaz, Imperial Camel Corps, TE Lawrence and his associates. Anything considered…

Last edited by popskipa; 17-09-20 at 01:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:55 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.