wrong fittings?

[jfenzy1]

Can I have your thoughts on these please? Suffolk and Northamptonshire bronzed, South Staffordshire brass front but unusual at the back.

[Sonofacqms]

The Suffolk Regt and South Staffs are OSD collar badges that have been polished and lost the bronze finish by the look of them.

The Northants has been given a bronze finish for whatever reason, it looks like a 1916 issue economy badge which may have tarnished.

Rob

[magpie]

I'd say you've got 2 OSD collars and an economy cap badge, unless someone has any other thoughts.

[gb64]

I agree with those thoughts, all good .


Gerard

[jfenzy1]

thanks for the reply lads, the suffolk measures 40mm top to bottom 45mm scroll to scroll...the south staffs 45mm top to bottom and 55mm scroll to scroll. So is it correct that the collar badges were the same size as the cap badge ?

[magpie]

In a lot of cases same badge just different fitting, nothing to stop you using a collar badge in the cap and most S/G badges have lugs so you can easily remove and store the badge separately so it doesn't oxidise.

[gb64]

Originally Posted by jfenzy1

thanks for the reply lads, the suffolk measures 40mm top to bottom 45mm scroll to scroll...the south staffs 45mm top to bottom and 55mm scroll to scroll. So is it correct that the collar badges were the same size as the cap badge ?

Hi Jf
Yes they were in a lot of cases the same size with Officers Service Dress (OSD) collars, really the same badge as the Cap badge but with loops and not blades as in the cap badge , that’s in general with OSD to a lot of regiments but by no means standard !

Gerard

[jfenzy1]

Thank you again for for all the input guys, your knowledge and generosity in sharing it is much appreciated. I am also happy that these badges are real for a change, as there is near no room left in my scrap metal tin.
Regards, Jim

[Alex Rice]

I am pretty sure the Northhants is an OSD collar which has been converted to a cap badge by cutting off the lugs and adding a slider. You can see where the lugs have been cut off.
Cheers,
Alex

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

I am pretty sure the Northhants is an OSD collar which has been converted to a cap badge by cutting off the lugs and adding a slider. You can see where the lugs have been cut off.
Cheers,
Alex

Alex, if you mean the points at the rear of the castle, they are part of the design of the badge.

[Alex Rice]

Oh ya, see that now

[jfenzy1]

I have found an album of all gilding metal economy badges here on the forum posted by Chipper (pic22 KK666 ) The Northants badge looks the same. Could this then be a gilding metal version of an economy cap badge ?

[Luke H]

The 1916 all GM issues, commonly referred to by collectors (but never officially) as ‘economy’ badges, were exactly that i.e. GM which was set out in an 1897 dated RACD pattern as being 86.7% copper and 13.3% Zinc. Both these points are supported by original documentation re-discovered by Julian (KLR) in his research.

In practice the exact metal composition of these all GM badges undoubtedly varied somewhat as genuine badges can range from almost bright yellow brass to a very coppery colour in some cases. No doubt due to wartime pressures and the quantities and speed which these badges were required precise metallurgy was clearly not a priority when it came to cap badges. Dean (mooke07) did a very interesting study analysing the elemental composition of some badges including all GM issues in a thread.

The Northants is exactly this as stated above by Sono, Magpie and Gerard. The colour is highly likely due to how its been kept and oxidation of the GM giving it a patina similar in tone to bronze. If you give it a gentle clean with a cotton bud and warm soapy water it should remove some of this and lighten it back to a more GM colour, but personally I’d leave it as it is.

[jfenzy1]

Thanks again Luke for your expert knowledge and unwavering enthusiasm and support. I will leave it as it is and mark it up as a 1916 gilding metal issue.
Regards, Jim