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  #1  
Old 12-05-12, 02:05 AM
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John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
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Default 1911; OTC, Junior Division Contingents -formation dates

The following links to parliamentary debates for 11 April 1911 gives the dates of formation of the junior contingents of the OTC in existence at that time. I thought this might be of interest.

John

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/w...training-corps
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  #2  
Old 12-05-12, 02:38 AM
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Thankyou very much for the link, John. Very interesting information there. The numbers would give a rough idea as to the relative scarcity of the badges.
Cheers, Tinto
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  #3  
Old 23-01-14, 01:40 AM
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Default Badges of the Public School Corps 1901

Doing some research tonight I came across The Public School Magazine" Vol V111 July-Dec 1901 which has a 9 page article titled Badges of the Public School Corps

It contains contemporary accounts, with some illustrations, of the cap badges buttons and collar badges work by several OTCs which may be of interest to some members. The pages of interest are 381-389.

The link below will hopefully take you to a free google e-book which one can download.

John


http://books.google.com/books?id=SI0...0badge&f=false
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  #4  
Old 23-01-14, 11:53 AM
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Default The Public School Magazine, 1901

Hi John

Very many thanks indeed for posting this up, it certainly sounds like a valuable resource and just the kind of thing I’ve been looking for with regard to Uppingham’s badge. Unfortunately when I follow the link things only appear in ‘Snippet view’, or at least that’s how it comes up for me! So if there happens to be a kind soul out there who can access this, or someone who already has a copy of the article in question, then I really would be most grateful if they could e-mail what it has about Uppingham please?

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”

Last edited by 'Ticker' Riley; 23-01-14 at 07:59 PM.
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  #5  
Old 23-01-14, 12:17 PM
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Martin

I was able to download the entire publication, it is 54MB. If you pm me your e-mail address I shall extract the article and send it to you later tonight my time unless things work out for you earlier.

There is also a reference to an article in an earlier volume on uniforms which I intend to seek out. At first glance last night it seems that all previous volumes are also available.

John
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  #6  
Old 23-01-14, 01:10 PM
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Default Badges of the Public School Corps article

Hi John

That’s ever so good of you. I’ve now sent you a PM with my e-mail address, and very much look forward to receiving a copy of the article in due course. Don’t know why I’m only getting the ‘Snippet view’, but maybe it’s something to do with the computer I’m using!? Anyroad, thank you again for offering to let me have a copy of this - much appreciated.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”

Last edited by 'Ticker' Riley; 23-01-14 at 08:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 24-01-14, 01:13 AM
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Martin

although I lost some resolution on extracting it from the full volume, the size is now manageable and the print and illustrations seem pretty sharp.

It is still too large to add as a pdf attachment here so I have emailed the full article to you . The pages with illustrations are attached below for general interest.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p383.JPG (95.9 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg p384.JPG (78.5 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg p387.JPG (99.1 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg p389.JPG (112.7 KB, 47 views)
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  #8  
Old 24-01-14, 03:35 PM
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Default ‘Badges of Public School Corps’, Public School Magazine, Vol. VIII, 1901, pp. 381-389

Hi John

Very many thanks indeed for the copy of the article from the 1901 Public School Magazine on ‘Badges of Public School Corps’, which I really appreciate you sending me. Thank you also for posting up some of the relevant drawings here, especially the three lions collar badge of the Leicesters’ 1st Volunteer Battalion that was worn at Uppingham. From other things I’ve seen I thought it probably was the case that they wore these badges at the School, but having it confirmed by the article is great:

Quote:
“At Uppingham, though the royal tiger of the Leicestershire Regiment is found on the officers’ cap buttons, the device worn on the caps and collars and also on the tunic buttons consists of the county badge of the Leicestershire Volunteers, the three lions, passant gardant, of the Royal Arms of England, with a cadency label of three points; on the collar, however, the lions are encircled by the laurel wreath which goes with the royal tiger of the old 12th.”
I’m sure Dean (mooke07) will be interested in this, given he posted up one of the Volunteers’ cap badges here.

As the accessing the full PDF on Google Books, even though I did try another computer I still only got ‘Snippet view’. I think it may all depend on where you are, and that for some reason they block access to some of their content in certain countries – or maybe it’s just the Welsh mountains getting in the way!! Anyhow, I am most grateful to you, for not only sending me things, but also drawing my attention to this rather obscure source.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”
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  #9  
Old 24-01-14, 08:01 PM
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Fascinating, it would appear that some of the schools were wearing VB collars in their caps, Charterhouse & Epsom for example.
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  #10  
Old 25-01-14, 04:00 AM
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Default 1911 OTC...

I haven't managed to download the full document from Google, like Ticker I can only get a small view. However, from the pages posted on the Forum I am a little sceptical.
Uppingham School certainly had their own collar badges, which were the Liecs Tiger within a wreath above an 'Uppingham' scroll.
Forest School have had an acorn design collar badge attributed to them, not the three seaxes.

The only thought I have at the moment was that in 1911 the OTC were only three years old, prior to which they had mostly been School Corps, some of which were affiliated to the pre-1908 Volunteer battalions of county regiments.

A more authoritative source is in JSAHR Vol XV11 No65 published in the Summer of 1938.

Stephen.
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  #11  
Old 25-01-14, 11:29 AM
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here are the pages of the rest of the article. No author attributes, image titles correspond to page titles .
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Cover.JPG (23.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg p381.jpg (101.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg p382.jpg (108.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg p385.jpg (107.0 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg p386.jpg (109.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg p388.jpg (106.5 KB, 12 views)
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  #12  
Old 25-01-14, 12:11 PM
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Default OTCs in 1911 & School Corps in 1901

Hi Stephen

Whilst John’s initial posting that began this thread was about the strength of the OTCs in 1911 and their formation dates, his posting about the article he found in Public School Magazine was actually on the badges of the School Corps as they were in 1901. You’re quite right about Uppingham OTC having a tiger badge surround by a wreath like those of the Leicestershire Regiment, only with a scroll underneath saying ‘Uppingham’, but back in 1901 they do seem to have worn the collar and other badges of the 1st Volunteer Battalion, as noted in the article. As you also point out, before 1908 some School Corps, including Uppingham, were affiliated to the local volunteer battalions. I personally think the article from Public School Magazine is a reliable source for how things were before 1908, certainly where Uppingham are concerned, though equally, as you say, Ernest J. Martin’s article ‘Badges of the Officers’ Training Corps’, that appeared in the Spring 1938 Issue of the Journal of the Society for Army Historical Research, is an authoritative source for badges in wear at that time. One thing I’ve yet to determine is exactly when Uppingham adopted their tiger cap badge, though I am in touch with the School about this and there is something to suggest this was before they became an OTC in 1908.

Best regards

Martin
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From Hindoostan, Gibraltar and Almanza; to Dunblane, Alma and Brandywine: Tigers, Steelbacks, Dutch Guards, Leather Hats, Nanny Goats and Red Feathers!
Interested in style and variation of post-1893 regimental cap badges for the Leicesters, the Northamptons, the Warwicks, the K.L.R., the R.W.F. and the D.C.L.I.

“Scutelliphiliacus in vestri insignia pergaudete”

Last edited by 'Ticker' Riley; 25-01-14 at 12:17 PM.
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  #13  
Old 26-01-14, 02:09 AM
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Default 1911- 1901 OTC

Martin,

My mistake- thanks for putting things straight. That's one of the problems with reading a Northern hemisphere webpage whilst Downunder- the letters are all upside down and back to front (that's my excuse and I stick to it).

Stephen.
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  #14  
Old 26-01-14, 08:17 AM
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I think there are a couple of threads at the moment that show the difficulty of obtaining information on badges worn by early cadet units ( indeed it is difficult to obtain information on badges worn by some cadets in the fairly recent past )

I cannot remember where the notes below ( which were made in 1952 ) came from but they do show an incredibly rare Liverpool Cadet badge which I have never seen an actual example of, it does show where the design of the Liverpool College OTC/CCF badge originates from and does at least show another item to be looking out for.
P.B.



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  #15  
Old 26-01-14, 07:33 PM
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For those interested attached here is the article on Public School Corps uniforms referenced in the article on badges. It also appeared in Public School Magazine vol VIII 1901.

Note as before, these refer to the School Corps in 1901 before the formation of OTCs.

Thank you Martin for bring the location of this article to my attention.

John
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