Magnetic Scottish Badges

[grey_green_acorn]

Here are four badges recently acquired in a large 'job' lot. SEAFORTHS, KOSB, BW and A&SH. All have the flat 'sheet metal' type loops or lugs. But, possibly more remarkable, all can be picked up by a magnet! The BW badge has the 'blob' below the sphinx fault recently discussed.

Tim

[cbuehler]

Just checked my identical KOSB and it is magnetic as well. The maker of these badges obviously had some steel in the alloy.

CB

[leigh kitchen]

Probably spilled his Irn-Bru in it?

[Luke H]

Would it be possible to have a close up of the KOSB please Tim?

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Would it be possible to have a close up of the KOSB please Tim?

Luke,
As requested:

Tim

[tonyb]

Just to add this Cameronians to the mix, also magnetic.
Tony.

[Markus Bodeux]

My Black Watch is also magnetic, normal lugs made from a half-round thread and the "blob" die flaw under the Sphinx.

Regards
Markus

[Markus Bodeux]

I took a closer look on the edges of my Black Watch and it looks that it was die struck from a composite material.
I know that some german decorations were die struck from Cupal (a sheet of aluminium between two thinner sheets of copper, cold rolled together) and the edges look quite similar.
May be these badges were made of a sheet of iron between two thinner of white metal ?

Regards
Markus

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

Luke,
As requested:

Tim

Many thanks Tim.

Sorry to be a pain, is it possible to get a front pic from straight on? That one has a bit of an aspect looking down from the top of the badge.

I’m looking to compare seeding patterns and fonts to another badge.

Edit: to add context I think there may be a link to the brass plated examples as there are some quite compelling similarities.

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Many thanks Tim.

Sorry to be a pain, is it possible to get a front pic from straight on? That one has a bit of an aspect looking down from the top of the badge.

I’m looking to compare seeding patterns and fonts to another badge.

Edit: to add context I think there may be a link to the brass plated examples as there are some quite compelling similarities.

Luke.
More pictures:

Tim

[Luke H]

Much obliged Tim, thank you.

Comparing all three badges they all exhibit a distinctive die flaw from the D to O of confido plus the rubbed flat fustra. The asymmetrical arrow slit in the central turret. Under a glass I can also see matches in the seeding pattern.

I suspect the brass example was also originally plated and has been sand blasted or similar going by the texture and some slight remnants of plate behind the lion.

A further die flaw has developed on the brass plated and brass versions between the thistle and Border circlet adjacent to the ‘OR’. Hence our magnetic examples sans this flaw must be earlier strikes.

Pic 1 - magnetic, plated flat stamped lugs
Pic 2 - plated brass, plated wire lugs
Pic 3 - brass, wire lugs
Pic 4 - reverse badge 1
Pic 5 - reverse badge 2
Pic 6 - reverse badge 3

[Luke H]

Can now add the Cameron Highlanders to the list, stamped lugs and also magnetic.

Coincidentally I also have a brass plated Camerons picked up many years ago which I suspect is the same die. I shall try find it to compare.

[Borderer]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Much obliged Tim, thank you.

Comparing all three badges they all exhibit a distinctive die flaw from the D to O of confido plus the rubbed flat fustra. The asymmetrical arrow slit in the central turret. Under a glass I can also see matches in the seeding pattern.

I suspect the brass example was also originally plated and has been sand blasted or similar going by the texture and some slight remnants of plate behind the lion.

A further die flaw has developed on the brass plated and brass versions between the thistle and Border circlet adjacent to the ‘OR’. Hence our magnetic examples sans this flaw must be earlier strikes.

Pic 1 - magnetic, plated flat stamped lugs
Pic 2 - plated brass, plated wire lugs
Pic 3 - brass, wire lugs
Pic 4 - reverse badge 1
Pic 5 - reverse badge 2
Pic 6 - reverse badge 3

In essence I really do not see the point in discussing these badges as they are all fakes.

Hiram

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Borderer

In essence I really do not see the point in discussing these badges as they are all fakes.
Hiram

I think we have very different views on what constitutes a fake Hiram.

Personally I define fakes as the products of ‘‘new dies made after the original badge’s period of wear/use specifically for the manufacture of reproductions intended for the collectors market’’

Identical lugs are found on a variety of Scottish badges (listed above) plus also WW2 era Royal Armoured Corps and Royal Tank Corps plus Scots Guards and Coldstream Guards.

Similar stamped lugs (some of which are plated) are also found on KC Parachute Regiment, AAC and Reconnaissance Corps badges.

None of the above are from any known ‘fake dies’ I’ve identified inc. the Marsh catalogue. Nor are they from original dies which are known to have produced later restrikes. Indeed I’d suggest many of the above exhibit characteristics of wartime manufacture, 3 are to WW2 raised units.

By extension of your detailed rationale all the above in the first cohort I list must be fakes since they (the flat electrical lugs with a circular aperture) are clearly all by the same manufacturer.

I prefer to base my opinions and observations on a forensic approach with detail analysis rather than haughty Colonel Blimp mentality.

Please don’t feel obliged to reply. Your views are duly noted.

[Paul Spellman]

So nobody else should have a different view to yours despite you never providing conclusive evidence of what is fake or what is genuine, your forensic studies are based on speculation at most times. You sometimes add in posts that certain areas are either not in your collecting interest or experience but you can freely voice your opinion on all and sundry but others should shut up
Your reply to Hiram was crass and rude
No wonder only a handful of members post on here

Originally Posted by Luke H

I think we have very different views on what constitutes a fake Hiram.

Personally I define fakes as the products of ‘‘new dies made after the original badge’s period of wear/use specifically for the manufacture of reproductions intended for the collectors market’’

Identical lugs are found on a variety of Scottish badges (listed above) plus also WW2 era Royal Armoured Corps and Royal Tank Corps plus Scots Guards and Coldstream Guards.

Similar stamped lugs (some of which are plated) are also found on KC Parachute Regiment, AAC and Reconnaissance Corps badges.

None of the above are from any known ‘fake dies’ I’ve identified inc. the Marsh catalogue. Nor are they from original dies which are known to have produced later restrikes. Indeed I’d suggest many of the above exhibit characteristics of wartime manufacture, 3 are to WW2 raised units.

By extension of your detailed rationale all the above in the first cohort I list must be fakes since they (the flat electrical lugs with a circular aperture) are clearly all by the same manufacturer.

I prefer to base my opinions and observations on a forensic approach with detail analysis rather than haughty Colonel Blimp mentality.

Please don’t feel obliged to reply. Your views are duly noted.