Button and badge ID please

[Beg]

Hello...

My apologies if this is the wrong forum for the following question.

If it is, could someone please steer me in the right direction. It would be most appreciated.

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The following is a link to a post on the NZ Rootschat genealogy forum.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762052.0

There is a head and shoulders photo of a chap in uniform. The assumption is that he served in the NZ forces in WW2.

Having said that, he has no Service Record at NZ Archives so the uniform may not even be military.

Does anyone recognize the "S" button or what looks like a "Z" on the collar badge.

Apologies for the photo quality.

And, again, apologies if this is in the wrong forum.

All the best
Beg

PS to the Moderator - more apologies if linking to another website is bad form. The photo is not mine. I'm a bit wary of posting other people's family photos without permission, hence the link. Happy to remedy this if needed :-)

[Bill A]

Hello Beg, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts. (You have not broken any rules, but it is preferable to have the image posted on your thread. Links tend to be broken etc after a period of time.)

[Tinto]

Hi Beg,

Welcome to the Forum. Collar badges worn by your man vaguely resemble those of the Electrical and Mechanical Engineers.

However, the New Zealand Electrical and Mechanical Engineers were formed on 1 September 1946 and granted the prefix Royal on 12 July 1947.

Others on the Forum may positively identify his unit.

Cheers, Tinto

[irishhorse]

New Zealand general issue buttons. Look to be the non shaded type, so post 1911. Collars look to be flaming grenades as worn by Engineers Artillery and Fusilier regiments etc. Would say photo is WWII period. Possibly NZ Engineers ?

[Tinto]

Hi again,

Looking at the badges again, I agree with Danny (irishhorse) that the badges look more like flaming grenades. The light reflections confused me.

Cheers, Tinto

[Beg]

Hi again...

Thanks for the welcomes. And thanks for the replies :-)

I zoomed in on the collar and to me the middle part of it looks like a "2" (see attached image). Add that to the suggestion of Engineers/Fusiliers and info from the original genealogy thread (that the soldier had an album of photos from Fiji) and I've blindly leapt to the conclusion that he was in the 3rd Division, 2 NZEF.

Would be nice to find him on one of the WW2 Nominal Rolls but no luck so far.

Is anyone familiar with the book "Badges and Insignia of the New Zealand Army - 1847 to Present" by Geoffrey OLDHAM. I'm wondering if it's worth ordering it in at my local library. Maybe it holds a collar badge with a "2" and a flaming grenade attached to it.

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New Zealand general issue buttons. Look to be the non shaded type, so post 1911

What is a non-shaded button as opposed to a shaded button. It's not a term with which I'm familiar.

And if the button is "general issue" does that mean the "S" has no real significance.

Thanks again
Beg

[atillathenunns]

Beg it is interesting that you have a definite date of death but are not 100% sure the name is correct. I would suggest starting with NZ Births Death and Marriages or searching Lower Hutt cemetery records to start with.
Unlike the WW1 NZ records which can be obtained thru the NZ archives, WW2 records can be obtained by filling out the following form.
http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf...l-app-form.pdf

My own observations regarding the photo as a NZ uniform I find it quite interesting.
The shoulder straps appear to be the 1937 pattern.
The side cap was reintroduced to NZ Infantry in early 1940 with the issue of the New Battle Dress uniform which was first worn by men of the 3rd Echelon.
The jacket however is not a battle dress as they did not have brass buttons or collar badges, as such it is likely to be the old style Service Dress jacket which was commonly issued to home service troops during WW2.
NZ Onward badges were only issued to troops posted for overseas duty and members of the NZ Tank Corps, suggesting the photo would have been taken in New Zealand.
The buttons are to distorted to make a call on, but I agree the collar badges are generic and typical of those worn by NZ Artillery and NZ Engineers.
If I were to take a guess I would say Home service Artillery/Coastal defence.

[irishhorse]

This is the early button with lines across the centre (shaded) and the wording NEW ZEALAND VOLUNTEERS. Later buttons were not shaded and had the wording NEW ZEALAND FORCES. I think the collar is just the plain grenade type.

[Beg]

Hello IrishHorse...

Thanks for posting the images. They do say a picture's worth a thousand words :-)

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Hello Atilla...

Thanks for your thoughts on the uniform. As you say, it's an interesting search. I'll post everyone's suggestions from this thread to the genealogy thread.

In this instance, it doesn't look as if BMD and cemetery records will be of much help. The informant for those records was the soldier's son. In turn, the genealogy thread was started by his son, the soldier's grandson. It seems that all of the (very limited) biographical info known about the soldier is already known by the family.

I have a feeling that identifying the uniform won't directly lead to finding the soldier's birth record. But that's no reason not to try :-)

Thanks again
Beg