Very Sad! - A Vicious Circle!

[2747andy]

This is no slight on the seller whatsoever, the point I'm attempting to make which is "Sad" is that the original collector has passed away, sad also that he or she appears to have mounted and labeled them and probably paid quite a lot thinking they were genuine! Well if you have got a bid on any of the lots, there is not much amongst any that is not reproduction or modern!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Badges-Pat...n=luckyleyland

The saddest of all is people are bidding on this scrap metal and some will think they are about to add to their collections or they will be split up by the growing number of unscrupulous sellers, only to be passed on to an even wider circle of unwitting collectors!

Very Sad! '

[Frank Kelley]

Good heavens, there is quite a lot of dross there, the Selous Scouts is awful!

Originally Posted by 2747andy

This is no slight on the seller whatsoever, the point I'm attempting to make which is "Sad" is that the original collector has passed away, sad also that he or she appears to have mounted and labeled them and probably paid quite a lot thinking they were genuine! Well if you have got a bid on any of the lots, there is not much amongst any that is not reproduction or modern!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Badges-Pat...n=luckyleyland

The saddest of all is people are bidding on this scrap metal and some will think they are about to add to their collections or they will be split up by the growing number of unscrupulous sellers, only to be passed on to an even wider circle of unwitting collectors!

Very Sad! '

[badger123]

The worrying thing is as Andy said, these things will no doubt be sold by unscrupulous dealers to people who don't know any better.

The chances are that a lot of these will (eventually) be picked up by new collectors who will quickly become disheartened with the hobby once they find out they have been duped.

Don't be surprised if some of the 'rarer' badges turn up with an amazing provenance or background story at some stage in the near future.

I agree, very sad.

[Peter Brydon]

Slightly different take on non genuine badges here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victorian-...p2056016.l4276

P.B.

[Pylon1357]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Slightly different take on non genuine badges here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Victorian-...p2056016.l4276

P.B.

So there were crap 100 yeras ago... this makes them 100 year old crap. I know dinosaur poop is old and collectible, but, how collectible is 100 year old poop?

[Peter Brydon]

Cliff,

Wouldn't disagree, anyhow the item the dealer is selling is more like 100 weeks rather than 100 years old.

Peter

[Frank Kelley]

As old as that?

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Cliff,

Wouldn't disagree, anyhow the item the dealer is selling is more like 100 weeks rather than 100 years old.

Peter

[Arnhemjim]

Gentlemen,
I said it once and I will say it again, as this is precisely the type of occurrence which precipitated, a previously submitted message, "Not Worth the Effort". I will enjoy my existing collection and let it go at that.

"Bad enough sliders versus lugs, orientation of lugs, then metal in lugs, brass versus copper, then shape of lugs, then solder material and shape. Don’t even bother getting me started on the intricacies of cloth insigne. I am not a trained Forensic Analyst, this just is no longer an enjoyable hobby. Any further limited additions to my collection will be identified restrikes, replicas or outright counterfeits. Further I have stricken two words, and all variants, from my verbal and written vocabulary. Those being the words, assume and assumption. After nearly seven decades of collecting, it is just not worth the effort."

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Arnhemjim

Gentlemen,
I said it once and I will say it again, as this is precisely the type of occurrence which precipitated, a previously submitted message, "Not Worth the Effort". I will enjoy my existing collection and let it go at that.

"Bad enough sliders versus lugs, orientation of lugs, then metal in lugs, brass versus copper, then shape of lugs, then solder material and shape. Don’t even bother getting me started on the intricacies of cloth insigne. I am not a trained Forensic Analyst, this just is no longer an enjoyable hobby. Any further limited additions to my collection will be identified restrikes, replicas or outright counterfeits. Further I have stricken two words, and all variants, from my verbal and written vocabulary. Those being the words, assume and assumption. After nearly seven decades of collecting, it is just not worth the effort."

Arnhem Jim
Arizona Territory

Jim,
I'm sorry to see you so annoyed, and please don't take this the wrong way, but when it comes to British Cap badges and I refer to only cap badges and no other form of insignia as this is my particular area of collecting!

But collectors must also be prepared to take the blame for the amount of reproduction items in circulation! After all if people did not buy them, the fakers would not make them and it would also mean genuine items would be more valuable! Now before you bash the keys in a frantic reply, just ask yourself how you now know you have had repros which you bought as genuine? And with the benefit of hindsight would you have bought those items today having been a member if this Forum?

This is not a dig, but knowledge must be shared, it really annoys me when established collectors who know quite a bit about their particular area or specialisation, selfishly refuse to share that with new collectors!

Pile as many badges as you want on you "desk" if you don't share what you know (before you go to meet the big badge collector in the sky) then the inexperienced will continue to be fleeced, crud will continue to circulate and more and more people will leave the hobby!

Ring a bell anyone?

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Jim,
I'm sorry to see you so annoyed, and please don't take this the wrong way, but when it comes to British Cap badges and I refer to only cap badges and no other form of insignia as this is my particular area of collecting!

But collectors must also be prepared to take the blame for the amount of reproduction items in circulation! After all if people did not buy them, the fakers would not make them and it would also mean genuine items would be more valuable! Now before you bash the keys in a frantic reply, just ask yourself how you now know you have had repros which you bought as genuine? And with the benefit of hindsight would you have bought those items today having been a member if this Forum?

This is not a dig, but knowledge must be shared, it really annoys me when established collectors who know quite a bit about their particular area or specialisation, selfishly refuse to share that with new collectors!

Pile as many badges as you want on you "desk" if you don't share what you know (before you go to meet the big badge collector in the sky) then the inexperienced will continue to be fleeced, crud will continue to circulate and more and more people will leave the hobby!



Andy

Andy,

You make a decent post but then have to end it with a completely necessary snide remark. How can you expect people to take what you say seriously when their back is up.

No need.

Keith

[grenadierguardsman]

Very well put Andy. i remember when i first joined the Forum. You ripped my collection apart ( and i`m glad you did ) due to the amount of crap i had. I have and am still learning about this hobby from the more knowledgeable collectors out there. A heads up on crap badges is well worth knowing.
Andy

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

Andy,

You make a decent post but then have to end it with a completely necessary snide remark. How can you expect people to take what you say seriously when their back is up.

No need.

Keith

Keith,
Sorry do you mean un-necessary? If so I appreciate your reply, the point I'm trying to make is there is more to be benefitted by collectors from people showing their badges to other collectors, than the fakers will ever gain?

Just like your Border Regt Militia badge on another thread, I'm still green with envy, but now I know just what to look for if I ever want to add one to my own collection!

Yes I like winding people up! But, and this is not arrogance or "Sergeants Mess Bully Boy" behaviour, but I have bent over backwards and will continue to do so to help fellow collectors! Some on this Forum think I am too set in my ways, but I only post on a thread if I genuinely believe I have a valid point to raise!

It really gets my goat when people are selfish, or respond to new collectors with rude replies when a positive reply would be more beneficial and the responder not coming across as a twat!

That's two people I've had a dig at now so best I chill out for the night!

Tanks for your reply!

Andy

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Keith,
Sorry do you mean un-necessary? If so I appreciate your reply, the point I'm trying to make is there is more to be benefitted by collectors from people showing their badges to other collectors, than the fakers will ever gain?

Just like your Border Regt Militia badge on another thread, I'm still green with envy, but now I know just what to look for if I ever want to add one to my own collection!

Yes I like winding people up! But, and this is not arrogance or "Sergeants Mess Bully Boy" behaviour, but I have bent over backwards and will continue to do so to help fellow collectors! Some on this Forum think I am too set in my ways, but I only post on a thread if I genuinely believe I have a valid point to raise!

It really gets my goat when people are selfish, or respond to new collectors with rude replies when a positive reply would be more beneficial and the responder not coming across as a twat!

That's two people I've had a dig at now so best I chill out for the night!

Tanks for your reply!

Andy

Yes, I meant unnecessary, whoops. Thing is you can't force people to show their badges, or even contribute to the forum. If anything I'd have thought people would be turned off if constantly preached at or insulted and there are many lifelong collectors out there who hate the attitude of some on here when I've spoken to them at fairs.

Up to you though, I'd rather things remained civil.

[Nozzer]

The other week, I sat down and went through my early (pre forum) attempt at putting together a collection of WW1 cap badges. This collection has laid dormant for some time now and I was aware that there were some "naughties" hiding in amongst the good ones. At the end of this excercise, I was left with four piles. I am glad to say that the (slightly) larger pile was what I was confident was "good" with a smaller (still to big) pile of what I know are fakes. The smallest pile is of "not to sure". I also made a pile of repaired badges to replace at a later date (perhaps).

Now, what to do with the fakes? Do I;

#1, Smash 'em up with "an 'ammer?"

#2,Throw them in the bin?

#3, Keep them for reference (I think I might have learnt now )?

or #4, try and sell them and get some of my money back?

My business sense tells me to sell them (perhaps scratch an "F" on the back?), but my conscience says NO......

So, what do I do?

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

The other week, I sat down and went through my early (pre forum) attempt at putting together a collection of WW1 cap badges. This collection has laid dormant for some time now and I was aware that there were some "naughties" hiding in amongst the good ones. At the end of this excercise, I was left with four piles. I am glad to say that the (slightly) larger pile was what I was confident was "good" with a smaller (still to big) pile of what I know are fakes. The smallest pile is of "not to sure". I also made a pile of repaired badges to replace at a later date (perhaps).

Now, what to do with the fakes? Do I;

#1, Smash 'em up with "an 'ammer?"

#2,Throw them in the bin?

#3, Keep them for reference (I think I might have learnt now )?

or #4, try and sell them and get some of my money back?

My business sense tells me to sell them (perhaps scratch an "F" on the back?), but my conscience says NO......

So, what do I do?

I always take the hit. I wait until I have a pile of copies and/or damaged and sell them as one big lot on ebay, correctly pointing out what they are. The results can some times be surprising and by doing this you keep your reputation as a seller of genuine items. Most collectors will agree that sooner of later some dross gets accumulated and has to disposed of somehow.

I have binned a lot in the past too.