Royal Marines Commando Titles - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

seebee1 · #1 06-09-11, 05:52 PM

I would much appreciate advice regarding the introduction date of the Royal Marines Commando Titles. I have read somewhere that this was late in 1945, is that correct or are they earlier or later? Regards, Clive.

stonehouse boy · #2 06-09-11, 06:03 PM

Hi Clive
The late John Bailey put together a paper on Royal Marines insignia in the 1970's he was a member of the Royal Marines Historical Society.
He states those shoulder titles came into service in 1946.

John

seebee1 · #3 07-09-11, 09:09 AM

Many thanks for your reply John. I believe the actual Battledress is WW2, as are the Combined Operations Patches. Quite probably these continued in use after the War ended. Regards, Clive.

Luc · #4 07-09-11, 08:29 PM

Clive I don't like the looks of the tombstone patches at all. The eagles looks more like geese, I don't think these are genuine.

Mike Jackson · #5 07-09-11, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc

Clive I don't like the looks of the tombstone patches at all. The eagles looks more like geese, I don't think these are genuine.

Agreed - and would RM Cdos have worn the Combined Operations sign in anything other than the circular format? I don't think so.

seebee1 · #6 07-09-11, 11:16 PM

Thank you for your further comments. My feeling is/was that these are both original Combined Operations Sleeve Insignia. I am curious to know why the Royal Marines Commando would not have worn this shape of pattern, did they only wear the completely circular version? A couple of better images attached. Regards, Clive.

jdr · #7 08-09-11, 01:30 AM

Clive your Combined Ops patches are fine, they are late war but fine. RMCs continued to wear these after WW2. I have just sold a similar set of insignia and the detail in the later war Combined Ops is poorer - the design has lost detail etc

Jack

Mike Jackson · #8 08-09-11, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seebee1

Thank you for your further comments. My feeling is/was that these are both original Combined Operations Sleeve Insignia. I am curious to know why the Royal Marines Commando would not have worn this shape of pattern, did they only wear the completely circular version? A couple of better images attached. Regards, Clive.

The "tombstone" format for the Combined Operations sign was a hangover from the shape of naval specialisation badges. There are, to my knowledge, very few photographs showing the "Tombstone" format being worn by RM or Army members of the four SS (later Cdo) Bdes. There are images of it being worn by, inter alia, RN ratings serving in COPP and some French members of 10 (IA) Cdo. Standard wear in the four SS (Cdo) Bdes was the circular format sign, later supplanted by the sign of the FS fighting knife. The latter was introduced to counter the proliferation of the wearing of Combined Operations sign by all and sundry with even the most tenuous connection to the cutting edge of true Commando operations - WRNS in COHQ and the crews of Landing Barges Kitchen have been cited (even though very worthy in their own ways). From personal recollection, post-War most RM Cdos wore the FS fighting knife sign, but members of some specialist units and HQ not subordinate to HQ 3 Cdo Bde wore the circular Combined Operations sign.

seebee1 · #9 08-09-11, 09:12 AM

Thank you Jack and Mike for your further comments, very much appreciated. It seems possible that these are all original Insignias. From what you have explained does this mean that it is totally incorrect and impossible for the "Tombstone" pattern of Combined Operations Insignia to be worn by someone serving in the Royal Marines Commandos? Unfortunately this is an area outside my own experience and am pleased to learn more about this subject. Regards, Clive.

Mike Jackson · #10 08-09-11, 09:49 AM

If there is one thing that almost 5 decades of cloth insignia collecting has taught me it is that nothing is impossible! But the combination of the post-War title and the "tombstone" sign is unusual. Theoretically it could have been worn by a Mne serving in an RM detachment on one of HM Ships ie Commando trained but not on the strength of an RM Cdo unit or HQ. Does the source of the BD blouse give a clue?

seebee1 · #11 08-09-11, 10:30 AM

Thank you Mike for your further comments. Unfortunately there is no history or provenance. Like you I have been collecting for a long time and this was just one of those things you pick-up along the way. I do not remember where and when I bought it. Regards, Clive.

Unknownsoldier · #12 08-09-11, 11:59 AM

not a fan of the CO patches either... sorry

Tom

seebee1 · #13 08-09-11, 06:06 PM

Much appreciate the varied opinions regarding the Combined Operations Sleeve Insignia. Problem being some feel they are original and others do not, now I am really confused.com! The Battledress itself is not too common, made for the Royal Marines, I really do not see why anyone would have added these titles, although I guess to enhance its value. Regards, Clive.

stonehouse boy · #14 08-09-11, 06:34 PM

A quote from the late John Bailey paper on Royal Marines insignia.
The shape varied from circular to square with a rounded top- either printed or embroidered or vice versa and were worn by all members of the Armed Forces serving in Combined Operations Command.
The signs were worn in pairs by Royal Marines ( with the SMG facing forwards)
on Battle Dress and in WW2 on No 1 Dress. Some Royal Marines Commando formations continued to wear this sign in preference to the 'Commando Dagger' ( which was issued later) eg. 41 RM Commando.