RN trade badges

[Phil2M]

Hi guys,

Just a quick question.

When did the Royal Navy swap the trade badges that are worn on the No.1 dress uniform from red symbols on a black background to gold symbols on a black background?

Thanks in advance,

Phil.

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by phil2m

Hi guys,

Just a quick question.

When did the Royal Navy swap the trade badges that are worn on the No.1 dress uniform from red symbols on a black background to gold symbols on a black background?

Thanks in advance,

Phil.

Hi there, cant give an exact date but it was in the early 1990's, I think around 93, I was married to a naval nurse at the time and remember her changing her killicks hooks from red on black (for No 1 & 2 dress) to gold on black and red on white to blue on white for her nurses ward dress and Action Working Dress (AWDS - Formerly No 8s now No 4s!) she also changed her No 5 dress (now No 3 dress) epaulettes from red on black to gold on black and her cap badge (on a round sailors cap with red and blue band) from the QARNNS Ratings badge to the red ratings not dressed as seamen badge on a tricorn cap.

Hope this is of some use

Regards Tony

[Phil2M]

Thanks Tony, thats most interesting. I hadnt realised that qarnns had changed cap badge too. I live a sheltered existence lol.

Thanks again,

Phil

[RBJ MIlitaria]

Originally Posted by phil2m

Hi guys,

Just a quick question.

When did the Royal Navy swap the trade badges that are worn on the No.1 dress uniform from red symbols on a black background to gold symbols on a black background?

Thanks in advance,

Phil.

they were worn at sme time red on number 2 uniform and gold on number 1 ( best uniform) however now ratings only have a number 1 suit so only gold badges worn no red branch or rate badges worn ( this was about 2000)

[Phil2M]

Thanks again, so its correct to say that they didnt change, they just stopped use.


Thanks

Phil

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by RBJ MIlitaria

they were worn at sme time red on number 2 uniform and gold on number 1 ( best uniform) however now ratings only have a number 1 suit so only gold badges worn no red branch or rate badges worn ( this was about 2000)

That is correct they were worn at the same time with the red badges worn on No2 and 3 dress and it is quite correct they were withdawn with ratings only having No1 dress with gold badges now, maybe my post gave a slightly wrong impression as it quoted the QARNNS which did swap badges as before that All QARNNS badges were red. However it did not happen around 2000! I was in the Royal Navy from 1994 to 2001 and I Never had any red on black badges or indeed a No 2 uniform! so it was 1993 or earlier!

Regards Tony

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by phil2m

Thanks Tony, thats most interesting. I hadnt realised that qarnns had changed cap badge too. I live a sheltered existence lol.

Thanks again,

Phil

Yes the QARNNS had their own distinctive red cap badges with the crossed A's which was replaced by standard RN cap badges for respective ranks, Officers also had their own distinctive rank badges which were replaced by standard RN officer rank, this happeded a little time after the WRNS was absorbed into the mainstream RN and they stopped using the blue on black badges and adopted the standard RN pattern of insignia.

Headdres changed too with ratings going from the cylendrical QARNNS cap ( bit like the old white plastic police WPC cap but a little taller! - indeed the QARNNS Reserve did actually use the police pattern cap!) to the round wrens ratings cap worn with a red and blue tally and QARNNS ratings cap badge as was worn on the old type cap, this was later replaced by the wrens senoir rates and officers tricorn cap at first with the QARNNS ratings cap badge and later by the red ratings not dressed as seamen badge, later still this became the standard RN gold PO cap badge! Today QARNNS Nurses below Petty officer naval nurse wear the standard round naval ratings cap (same worn by male and female, the old wrens cap has gone) with the cap tally of their establishment such as MDHU Derriford, MDHU Portsmouth or RCDM.

The only difference in QARNNS andmainstream RN is that the QARNNS still wear a crossed A's badge on their shoulder (for ratings ) and above the executive curl of the gold lace on the cuff for officers, officers also wear a crossed A's broach on the breast.

Regards Tony

[Phil2M]

Ive found out much more than I thought I would, this is really interesting stuff. Girls in my sea scout group used to wear the round style of wrns cap, when navy supplies ran dry we put girls in standard rn funnel covers too. Problem we have is telling some of the boys from girls and vice versa, hair styles etc being what they are nowadays

Cheers

Phil

[54Bty]

I have always known the Royal Navy uniform to be dark Navy Blue, when did it change to black?

Marc

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

I have always known the Royal Navy uniform to be dark Navy Blue, when did it change to black?

Marc

When I was a sea cadet back in the 70's, my uniform, if you looked at it "seemed" black, but if you caught it in the right light, there was a definate "blue" hue to the colour of the fabric! this I was always told is what "navy blue" is! when I joined the Royal Navy one thing I noticed was that my No 1 uniform did'nt have this blue hue to such an extent though was faintly still there! During subsequent service in the Merchant Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary (with my uniforms being made by MoD approaved naval tailors in Portsmouth) I found that the fabric no longer seems to have (to my eyes at least) that blue hue to it at all and be black! Having just checked the fabric of the many RN badges that I have I must say that All the modern ones (90s onwards) also appear black?

Maybe someone on here can say if the colour of the fabric has been officially changed?

Regards Tony

[54Bty]

Thank you Tony. I will get my box of badges out in a couple of weeks and check them.

Marc

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Thank you Tony. I will get my box of badges out in a couple of weeks and check them.

Marc

This is going a bit off the original topic but hope it will be of interest anyway!

The subject of the colour of RN badges and uniforms got me thinking so I took the badges below outside in bright, clear sunlight and made the following observations!

The badges I chose deliberately to be a mixed number from various periods of time and all I know to be authentic issue items.

Badges lot One

1. Belgian Para Commando. I used this as it is of an absolute black colour (I compared it with a tank regiment beret that is also absolute black and it is identicle) and I feel a good reference as to what is "black".

2. Old Radar Plot badge 1950's (I believe) Appears black but is of a different shade than the above, does not (to me) appear to have any blueish tinge or hue to it.

3. Modern Mine Warfare badge. Is definately navy blue in colour.

4. Modern Medical Assistants badge. Is darker than the MW badge described above but still definately navy blue.

Badge Lot Two

1. Communicator 1970's Definately navy blue.

2. Communicator tactical (I believe 1940's or 50's) navy blue but darker than above.

3. 4. Communicator 1920's/30's. also definately navy blue but a lot darker.

Badges Lot Three.

1. Modern Commando bullion No 1 dress. Definately navy blue.

2. Combined Operations 148 Cdo Fwd Obs Bty. navy blue but definately a much lighter shade!

3. Old Mine Warefare badge. navy blue but appears slightly darker than others.

4. Royal Navy shoulder title (period unknown) definately appears black but of a lighter shade than the belgian para commando badge.

5. Leading Rate WW1. Definately navy blue and comparable with the old MW badge.

I've included scans of all the badges but dont think the resolution and reproduction from my scanner is good enough to determine much?


So the conclusion I've made is that RN badges are generally navy blue but it seems there are occassional oddities that are black or at least appear so? would be interested to hear from anyone who has any official information on this subject?

Regards Tony