Irish Guards or 4RIDG question again.

[Balian]

Hi,
Despite reading through the previous threads on this I still can't decide but learning towards Irish Guards. Sizes are 44mm and 28mm, would one be a forage badge and other collar badge and what period do you think?

Thanks

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[irishhorse]

Both Irish Guards cap badges. Is there signs of the pin having replaced lugs on the smaller badge ?

[Balian]

Thanks for reply. The lugs look original on small one. Would you know what era they would be.

[irishhorse]

Notoriously hard to date un-hallmarked Irish Guards badges.

[cbuehler]

Hard to date as mentioned, but I am confident that they both are vintage badges, certainly not like what one typically sees made over the past 50 years or so. As a matter of fact, on looking at that brooch fitting on the small badge; that is an early type seen often on US badges dating from ww1 and the 1920s. I have never seen that on a British badge before.

CB

[Restrikes-ok]

As i understand it the roman numarals normaly indicate the year of formation of the regiment. So im guessing if you put the numerals into google youd get the year. Off the top of my head the irish guards was 1901. So that should identify weather IG or 4DG.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Restrikes-ok

As i understand it the roman numarals normaly indicate the year of formation of the regiment. So im guessing if you put the numerals into google youd get the year. Off the top of my head the irish guards was 1901. So that should identify weather IG or 4DG.

From the I.W.M :

"A gilding metal headdress badge for the Irish Guards, being the Star of the Order of St. Patrick, an eight-pointed Star, each point being a cluster of rays, the cardinal points being longer than the intermediate points, in the centre a circlet bearing the motto QUIS SEPARABIT (Who shall separate us?) and the date MDCCLXXXIII (1783 – the year the Order was founded) enclosing a saltire over which a shamrock, each of the three lobes bearing a crown. "

[Balian]

Originally Posted by irishhorse

Notoriously hard to date un-hallmarked Irish Guards badges.

Would you think these would be un-hallmarked silver, think I saw one similar when searching that mentioned that but wasn't sure.

[irishhorse]

Some are hallmarked, some not.

[billy]

Initially the 4th Irish Dragoon Guards collars was used for the 1st badges of the Irish Guards, the cap with fettling to rim with Shamrock enammelled Green, this held in a disc with band of St Patricks Blue Enamel highlighting the fettelled inscription, your images aren't so clear but will upload a picture of mine for you to compare, the small badge is likely to be a cap badge rather than a collar, more learnered people will give an update on this!

1st pair of pictures show a badge not long acquired but not sure if this is an early one not broken it apart yet as enamel is good compared to next set of photo's, 2nd set of pictures show an early badge using the collar of the 4th Irish Dragoon Guards I think? And you can see how the enamel has been chipped off in places, have put a photo up of an Irish Dragoon Officers small badge but this is likely to be WW2 or post war onwards star shape has changed a bit!

Hope it helps really like the small badge, well like both of course but haven't a small one yet but that's the fun of finding one sometime! All the best billy

[Balian]

Thanks for reply Billy, my 2 badges look very similar to your first two. Though to trained eye there may well be differences.

I have taken a couple more pictures hope they are a bit clearer.

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[Hoot]

Originally Posted by billy

Initially the 4th Irish Dragoon Guards collars was used for the 1st badges of the Irish Guards, the cap with fettling to rim with Shamrock enammelled Green, this held in a disc with band of St Patricks Blue Enamel highlighting the fettelled inscription, your images aren't so clear but will upload a picture of mine for you to compare, the small badge is likely to be a cap badge rather than a collar, more learnered people will give an update on this!

1st pair of pictures show a badge not long acquired but not sure if this is an early one not broken it apart yet as enamel is good compared to next set of photo's, 2nd set of pictures show an early badge using the collar of the 4th Irish Dragoon Guards I think? And you can see how the enamel has been chipped off in places, have put a photo up of an Irish Dragoon Officers small badge but this is likely to be WW2 or post war onwards star shape has changed a bit!

Hope it helps really like the small badge, well like both of course but haven't a small one yet but that's the fun of finding one sometime! All the best billy

Your final badge is 4th/7th Dragoon Guards.

[billy]

Hi Hoot yes should have stated that it is 4th / 7th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards, was more concerned over the Irish Guards badges! Thanks for keeping me on track, all the best billy

[Restrikes-ok]

Originally Posted by mike_vee

From the I.W.M :

"A gilding metal headdress badge for the Irish Guards, being the Star of the Order of St. Patrick, an eight-pointed Star, each point being a cluster of rays, the cardinal points being longer than the intermediate points, in the centre a circlet bearing the motto QUIS SEPARABIT (Who shall separate us?) and the date MDCCLXXXIII (1783 – the year the Order was founded) enclosing a saltire over which a shamrock, each of the three lobes bearing a crown. "

In the case of the 4/7RDG and RDG I'm right as I tried it. You get the year of formation of the regiment. However in the case of 4DG you get the year of the formation of the order.

[Balian]

Would anyone have any idea of value for these badges, hard to tie similar down to compare. Thanks