Liverpool University OTC

[Peter Brydon]

Posting a few pictures just to show what a variety of insignia you can collect to just one relatively small unit.

With thanks to KLR for the females full dress cap

P.B.

[Peter Brydon]

A few more items

P.B.

For some reason I do not appear to be able to post a picture of the liverpool University STC cloth title.
The unit also wore badges of the Kings Liverpools as worn by the regulars

Just as a point of information - did the LUOTC not have its own unique cap badge ? David

[lettman]

Here's a related item sitting in my collection of shoulder titles that may be of interest. I'm afraid I don't know the period, nor why there's a C in the centre when Westlake lists one with OTC in the centre.

[KLR]

Lettman, I think your title may be from Liverpool College, but Peter should be able to confirm that.

David, I can try to answer your question from research I have done in various archives.
Since there was no LU OTC during the 1st WW any Lpl students enrolled in the Manchester Univ OTC – and I think, wore the badge of the Manch Regt.
The LU OTC was set up in April 1919 and in January 1921 it was affiliated to the King’s Regt thus being allowed to wear its badges. Between these dates LU OTC wore GS badges. From 1921 however there is clear photographic evidence that they wore regular insignia. Gaylor (1971, 63) said that they wore all WM versions but without any supporting evidence and I have not been able to find any corroboration for this. If they were wearing WM before July 1938 their badges would be indistinguishable from the 7th TA Bn, King’s.
BUT there are numerous examples around of an all WM version of the smaller 1950 pattern – which MAY have been worn by them, I’m still investigating this one. Any specific LU OTC badges seem to have appeared after the war as Peter has shown. I’m again, uncertain when the large (1926 pattern) AA version was worn as it appears to be a private purchase item. The smaller AA version that was sealed in 1971 was in fact sealed specifically for the LU OTC (as numerous documents now prove) and NOT the regular regt (which had ceased to exist 13 years before !) as K & K and Peter Taylor would have us believe. There is a minor difference in this 1971 pattern (to the earlier small AA – worn I believe only by the 5th TA Bn 1958-67) in that it’s scroll is unseeded.
Since 1994 the LU OTC has also been wearing a red backed bullion badge on the beret. This is also a private purchase and issued to those officer cadets who have passed the commissioning course at RMAS – it is illustrated in Hodges’ book p435.

I hope this helps ! detailed research is a painstakingly slow process – especially part time – but I’ll get there in the end.
(My KLR connections extend to the LU OTC as my grandfather was appointed the first 2/ic on resuming studies at the univ after interruption caused by the Kaiser. He left on graduating but returned as it’s CO in the 1930s)
Julian

[Peter Brydon]

I had forgotten that I have an example of the bullion badge and this is attached,

Lettmans title is Liverpool Collegiate Cadets ( this actually shown in Westlake no 830 plate 53 and dates circa 1915-1925 , in 1925 the unit became an OTC)

The liverpool Collegiate CCF was at different times affiliated to the South Lancs and later The Liverpool Scottish ( unfortunalty I have yet been able to establish dates)

The Liverpool Collegiate School was in Shaw Street,the school now long gone but the facade remains with modern flats behind.The Liverpool Schools Chess tournaments were held there, I was involved because one of my teachers organised the event but my involvement was confined to moving desks and chairs to creat space for the event.

To add to the interest, Liverpool College was origianally known as" The Liverpool Collegiate Institution " and their badge from that period which resembles the current badge of the Liverpool College CCF had that title( I have a drawing of the badge but I dont know if any example still exists).

Any one like to guess who wore the white metal Kings type badge with "Veterinary" on the scroll ?

P.B.

[KLR]

Wow, you do come up with some crackers Peter ! (It looks like a 1st Bn type construction).
Regimental vet ?????

[Peter Brydon]

Julian.
Not mine, it is part of the Tim Ashley collection, and ( since I photographed it when Tim had his collection on display ) I have come to believe that the badge has nothing at all to do with the Kings Regt, despite the similiarities to their badges.

I think the badge is an Indian Veterinary Dept cap badge. If any one has any information to confirm this or not I would be please to hear from them.

Peter

[Peter Brydon]

I have now managed to down load the liverpool University STC title picture.

I dont have an actual example of this title and I am interested in obtaining an example of this and any other Liverpool University insignia that members migh have for sale or exchange

P.B.

Apologies for the quality of the picture it was saved in an unusal ( to me ) format

[lettman]

Thanks for all the Liverpool Collegiate detail, P.B. -- I obviously missed Westlake's entry regarding my title, and will have to sharpen my research skills!

[Peter Brydon]

Attached is a picture from the Kingsman magazine showing the small(er) anodised Kings Liverpool Regt badge in wear by members of the LUOTC. This is the badge mentioned in KLR`s post.

Nice to see an old regimental badge long since redundant in the regular army,still being worn by a locally based unit.

P.B.