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#16
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I see that it was over ten years that we were looking at this!
RACD stands for Royal Army Clothing Department, though they are usually known as ACD. There are 21 ledgers listing badges, boots, knives and forks and hundreds of other militarry items at TNA WO/359/ vols 1 to whatever it was). The first volume was written (yes, handwritten by army clerks) in 1855 and the last one was 1939. For examples, badges were given a full date (ie when sealed) and gave the Pattern number and then year eg 4362A/1896 - cap, collar ST etc The Pattern cards discussed above, most now are in the IWM and the NAM (largest collection), other ones were dispersed into the market. Quite often they have makers names on the back. In 1938 the Ministry of Supplies took over the authorisation etc up to 1946. There are two fat ledgers of badges at TNA of Pattern numbers and who made them! There is also a ledger of plastic badges (I have the accession numbers somewhere, I'll add it later I have a list of infy cap badges Pattern numbers - painstaking assembled, In my 1914 Infy collection I only use ACD Patt numbers - and for my KLR collection. |
#17
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Where to next
I have a GVR badge (K&K page 268 - 269 ref image 1054) that is claimed to be that of the MPSC, however it is not accepted by the MPSC Association so prove is required one way or another with statements like the “K&K is wrong again”
Do we have a100% correct catalog showing the cap badges that can not be disclaimed or do we have a way of validation. I have tried NAM (although it is on the online catalogue as MPSC they have no prove that it is) - IVM- National Archives - Military Association, no one knows for sure if it is or not so the only prove I need is to located the share a outs of or obtain an image of the sealed Patterns ! Can any body help me validate this badge with documented evidence. |
#18
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21 Ledgers at TNA
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You information and knowledge is brilliant and I have contacted the TNA as an enquiry to obtain a price for a copy of all 21 Ledgers. I will update you on the response and thank you again for shearing your knowledge. |
#19
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Contact at DIDCOT
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54Bty your knowledge is first class and I found vary valuable to myself and I noted KLR as well. Could you shear the actual location in DIDCOT so that I may contact them please. |
#20
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Marc
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I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards. |
#21
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Back to square 1
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Thanks for that info I am still impressed with you depth of knowledge. Some how in this world of logic there must be an official record of all cap badges awarded to HMForces. 54 Bty how can I validate this? Any ideas Mike |
#22
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Mike,
Another potential issue is that even if you find a sealed pattern card it may only show a description of the badge such as ‘Royal Cipher of King George Vth below a Tudor Crown all in gilding metal”. It may not show that the badge had a variety of end users including (possibly) the MPSC, Royal Defence Corps, Barrack Wardens etc. I think a search for photographic evidence of the badge in wear by an MPSC NCO of the right period would be better evidence. Tim
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"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest." |
#23
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TNA
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Could you please enlarge on the two fat files you referred to a move so they could be identified as per the return from TNA below. “hough you have mentioned ‘that there are two fat ledgers of badges at TNA of Pattern numbers and who made them’, unfortunately without the reference of these documents it is difficult to ascertain which document series to look for. “ Mike |
#24
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What are the trigger documents
Morning Guys. I am hoping someone can answer the following questions please.
1. What documented triggers are made for a new cap badge to be designed and who would make that request? 2. What document triggers the making of a change in cap badge due to changes of monarchy? Mike |
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