Military Horse Brass.......

[dragonz18]

Hi all,
I would like to start a new 'specialised' thread here on Military Horse Brasses. It's a field that I have a great interest in (both civilian & military), but cannot find a lot of accurate information on these interesting items.
Hopefully we can help each other out here, with pics & reliable details.
I have about a dozen or so badges ,at present & am still looking !
Just another little 'sideline collection' ( one of many ), you understand ?
Will post some shortly,but in the meantime, feel free to pre-empt any of my future postings.
Martingale, bridle ,etc....all items & Regts. acceptable here !!
Cheers !
Steve

[Eddie Parks]

Nice idea for a thread. Somebody had a picture of a really nice Mounted Infantry Officer's martingale badge on another thread recently.

I used to have a Bombay Horse Artillery officer's martingale but I'm afraid its gone!

Eddie

[dragonz18]

Just a couple of general information pics.........
First a Military Bit ,with Bosses still attached.Fairly old o/r's type. Also ,sadly, a little worse for wear & time, by an uncaring previous owner. But shows how they looked .Uncleaned (but stabalised) as yet ,in this case.And not sure how far to go with any refurbishing here.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
(Have had some nice Officer's nickle ones ,in the past,but they were all NZMR ,so did not fit in with my main collecting now & have been traded on.)
Secondly a variety of the standard back fittings.
Top left, Bit Boss, 2 studs N&S ,all are like this.Sometimes used with washers at back on martingales also.
Top right, Martingale badge/boss, with older variety of fixtures.
Bottom left, Bridle Boss, worn at the juncture of the cheek straps & brow band.
Bottom right, Martingale Boss with more standard style of fixings . The number used can vary.
Also found are things like Stirrup strap slides,etc with Regt. embellishments.
Hope this thread will show some great items & solve some mysteries, as unless they are specifically named,I know of no reference that explains their Unit connections,etc properly.

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

A couple to start it off..........
Fairly obvious Cavalry examples ,the first,KC( Third Kings Own Hussars) may be an Officer's variety,the second,VC / Guelphic ( a little worn & studs removed ) probably an o/r's ( 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards) . Both are Bit Bosses .

Cheers!
Steve

[dragonz18]

More.......
1. Universal Pattern ,Victorian ,Officer's. Front. Used by all ,with no 'special' badges of their own.
2. Back of same ,showing this to be die-struck (like a cap badge) from a very heavy guage plate of brass.Modern badge makers cannot believe this was possible to produce at that time ,in this way & of this quality.
3. Variation of UP with wreath below.Appears to be gilded Silver metal.Front gilt mostly worn off. Not a clue who used this one.
4. Back of same,showing gilding retained there. A die-cast manufacture here.

The first is a Bit Boss & the second a Martingale badge.

Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

Hi all !
My holiday reading has thrown some further light on this subject.
Some basics ,for British forces only, here.......
Known varieties exist for: 1st & 2nd Life Guards, RHG, all Cavalry(all different), Scots Guards, Rifle regts.(all different), all other Line Infantry ( a standard type here), plus Generals,etc.
Know that RE used the Universal Pattern & assume RA & most others did also.

There is a very large amount of 'special colonial variations' also. NZMR's,etc.
The UP was also used by many here.

Cheers !
Steve

[3748 Hussar]

Hi all , I have a small reference guide on Military Horse furniture. Will post a scan asap . I will also post some pic's any request Hussars, lancers,dragoons

[dragonz18]

Hi 3748H,
very happy to see you here !
Any info or pics(in any order)will be much appreciated, indeed !
Corrections to any previous assumptions,etc here, are most welcome also.

Cheers !
Steve

[Peter Brydon]

If anyone with an interest in this subject is anywhere near Chester, I seem to remember they have a dummy horse on display at the Cheshire Regimental Museum with all the saddlery of the Cheshire Yeomanry i.e. bit bosses,bridle slides, martingale badges in brass with the regimental devices on them.

P.B.

[3748 Hussar]

Bit bosses are circular ornamental objects attached to each side of a bit on the vertical positioned metal cheeks.

Prints dated back as far as 1862 verify there use by the british Cavarly and are still used today by the Houshold

cavarly . The earliest Examples of regimental devices in the national army museum are dated around 1857.

The first crown used prior to 1901 is commonly known as the albert crown. This has no connection with the

Prince Consorts, as this pattrn of crown was seen before Prince Albert was born.It has been said that it was

introduced by Prince regent (George IV) and that he derived the idea from a conventional heraldic representation

used in one of the German Princedomes of that time 1811.

Universal patteren bosses with the VR chipher were used by the officers of the KDG,3rd DG,13th Hussars,

16th Lancers, 20th Hussars ( 13 th Hussars chipher differs slighty as it has a roped edge to the garter)

This was also used by all other ranks of the cavarly of the line. The remaining regtiments had there own design

which I will post later.

LEFT bit boss two fixings North South **RIGHT martingale Blades mounted on leather

Tony C

[3748 Hussar]

Universal Kc Pattern post 1901 , change in type of crown and the chipher.

Note from part 1 basic Bit bosses KDG (Reference from JT Thompson Auther of British Cavarly Bridle Bosses 1860-1914)

According to the Regt Museum (KDG )an Example of the KDG Universal pattern with the words around the Garter King'Dragoon Guards, Pattern unknown *Cardiff bloke any references on your recent visit ?

Note . 5th Royal Irish Lancers used the Universal pattern

Below Left Bit Boss Right Martingale


Tony

[Cardiffbloke]

Hi Tony
I am not very 'up' on these horsey things mate and i know i should be.... But i can tell you that what exists in the Regt'l museum as i type this, have no words "King's Dragoon Guards" on any of the horse brasses. Sadly some civvy punter stole the martingale from the dummy horse and rider we had in the foyer of the museum some years ago, it could have been the one that had the wording. I personally cannot believe that KDG being the Regiment they were did not have some sort of distingushing mark on their horse furniture, especially since the ear bosses and stirrup slides did. It simply does not follow logic. I know that The Bays had "The Queens Bays" on the garter strap as i have two examples. I would be interested to see a scan of that particular reference you quoted next time you mail me....

Howard

[3748 Hussar]

From Left to Right

2nd life guards QVC,KC QC. These circular bit bosses date back pre 1901 .

Crown and lion within Peninsula over waterloo . Cast brass 2 fixings

North/south. These were 2nd Life guards officer issue and others ranks

for the 1st/2nd Guards & The royal horse Guards. The Qc version is still

in service . Beaware that the QVC /QC are quite similar in design.

Tony C

[dragonz18]

Dunbarton Vols.
Martingale ,Die-Cast.
Looks to be OK,but never sure with this sort of item.
Cheers !
Steve

[peter cole]

I am new to this site. A member of the BHSG has found the attached badge. It has been suggested that it is a a shoulder-belt badge for the Kings German Legion. I have suggested that it could be a Horse Breastplate badge. Any suggestions please?