Motto pick ups - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

mooke07 · #1 22-05-14, 08:54 AM

Hi all,

I am seeking Will need some assistance from Griff and other learned members on these Mottos I have picked up privately last week in the UK.

First is a silver plated Motto measuring 40.8mm H x 47.8mm W very similar to one I have posted before but this one has silver loops.

Second is I think a cast silver arm badge that measures 47.9mm H x 37.5mm W which is narrower than the ones shown in L&D. It lacks the eye brows of 17th or 17th/21st arm badges and so has me a bit lost.

Third is a type C 45.1 L&D WM arm badge post-1930 like my other one in Cavalry arm badge album but this one lacks the complete voiding between the skull and cross bones. It measures 48.3 mm H x 40.8mm W.

The fourth badge is a small WM FSC badge I think measuring 31.5mm H x 39.9mm W but not certain and have been looking at collar threads but just thought I would post it and face the music !

Cheers Dean.

GriffMJ · #2 22-05-14, 09:05 AM

Hi Dean

Ok..... the first one appears to be the Gaunt S/P Post 1960 Motto if the loops are long .... then its for the Officers SD Cap.

The second one is a cast chad..... not really sure about this one.... it is collected but I have never seen it in use in photos? (Possibly made in India - but no proof)

The third one is the "Old" die chad post 1930.

The last one looks like a collar badge (17L pre WW1) thats had its temples squeezed in.

mooke07 · #3 22-05-14, 09:13 AM

Thanks Griff,

Appreciate these are a walk in the park for you as far as ID goes.

I am getting to like these and so am happy. The first is indeed on nice long silver lugs and so Officers SD.

Ok on other two chads.

The collar for pre-WW1 17th Lancers and the FSC badge - size differences ?

My thanks indeed, cheers Dean.

GriffMJ · #4 22-05-14, 09:27 AM

Dean the 17 Lancer collars pre WW1 were large.... I have images of them worn on the Frock Coat collars for the officers and in Blues dress for the Other Ranks in the Great War period. I also have an image of the OSD version worn on the SD collars in 1920.

This collar Motto (size) was later used post 1970 by the Officers for use in the Beret.

* Collar size was not a hard and fast rule..... during the same periods quoted.... smaller collars are seen in different dress etc.

mooke07 · #5 22-05-14, 09:38 AM

Thanks Griff always keen to learn, these were amongst some other arm badges and so picked the lot up, cheers Dean.

GriffMJ · #6 22-05-14, 09:39 AM

Good haul

mooke07 · #7 22-05-14, 09:51 AM

Thanks Griff - plenty more to upload of a real mix of cav and infantry variant and officers badges, did well, cheers Dean.

manchesters · #8 22-05-14, 10:28 AM

For us non cavalry collectors - what's a Chad?

Regards

GriffMJ · #9 22-05-14, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters

For us non cavalry collectors - what's a Chad?

Regards

Its the Regimental name for the NCO Arm Badge.... its the old cartoon character of the face peeking over the wall I think?

Lancer 17 · #10 27-05-14, 07:57 AM

G;day Dean

Good to see that I have inspired you to collect Mottos, bring them down next time you come to Melb.

Not sure about the funny looking Chadd but the others look good to me.

Regards

Phil.

mooke07 · #11 27-05-14, 11:50 AM

Hi Phil,

Shall do - luckily spending another week in the UK shortly but will be in Melbourne when back. Yes your Mottos did inspire me and I think it is thanks for that !

Cheers Dean

Robthereiver · #12 28-05-14, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooke07

Second is I think a cast silver arm badge that measures 47.9mm H x 37.5mm W which is narrower than the ones shown in L&D. It lacks the eye brows of 17th or 17th/21st arm badges and so has me a bit lost.

Hi Dean

This Arm motto can be found in many forms inc. white metal, Silver & Brass silver plated.

It is mentioned in L&D Amendments 2 page 5, also in Peter Seaman's book page 103.

The general concensus appears to be that they are spurious, although many collectors do have them in their collections hopefully waiting for the discovery of a photo of it in wear which would validate it.

If you do not have Amendments with your copy of L&D, please contact me.

Regards Rob

Robthereiver · #13 28-05-14, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Its the Regimental name for the NCO Arm Badge.... its the old cartoon character of the face peeking over the wall I think?

Griff

I think that's quite right, but I would add the usage of the term 'Chad' stems from circa WWII period when I believe this cartoon character first made its appearance, so this is effectively a 17th/21st Lancer term.
Prior to this these arm badges were simply referred to as 'Arm Mottoes'.

Rob