British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > Headdress

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-19, 01:50 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default Royal Tank Regiment Officer's Dress Beret.

The RTR officer's "astrakhan"dress beret.
Introduced during the 1960's?
It was officially discarded for wear during 1978 although it appears that it's wear was unofficially "avoided" prior to that.
From what I read it was an item that appears to have been very unpopular and an object of ridicule even amongst those who had to wear it.

It bore nicknames that can't be repeated on this forum and are too offensive for me to even hint at.
I don't have strong views for or against it - I never had to wear one.

I bought what there is of this one because even though I had to pay postage from America and taxes it was the only way I'd get one at a price I could afford to pay.

It lacks the bullion badge and part of the lining, I'm still looking for a badge although the end result won't be genuine as adding stitching to put the badge on it "fakes it up" to me. As and when I get a badge I'll use a couple of dress pins to hold it in place.

Anyway I was pleased to get this beret, sorry looking though this particular example is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122518347~2.jpg (62.3 KB, 73 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122525292~2.jpg (33.6 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122535395~2.jpg (22.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122616423~2.jpg (40.9 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122616423~3.jpg (40.1 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190103_122627605~2.jpg (78.6 KB, 50 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-19, 03:19 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

From what I can make out, the astrakhan beret and bullion badge were introduced in 1962.

The feather hackle was introduced in 1954, replacing the horsehair brush or plume being worn by the band and was also introduced for wear by officers (although not in the yet to be introduced astrakhan beret) in No. 1 Dress.

At some point the the band have adopted flat, inverted triangle shaped hackles as worn in the RTR OR's distinctively set up Dress berets.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-01-19, 06:38 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

"In a short lived deviation from the black felt norm, an imitation black Astrakhan No1 Dress Beret was authorised in 1961 for wear by officers. A regimental hackle (3 coloured feathers) was inserted behind the badge.

However a few years after its inception, the Astrakhan had become a something of a joke having acquired a variety of unflattering nicknames (the hackle itself was described as an `irritating adornment`) and very few officers would wear it. Almost universally loathed, the parade beret was consigned to the dustbin of history after only 12 years."

"The Tank Museum, August 31, 2012 in The Tank Museum: News & Events".
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-01-19, 02:54 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

The Other Rank's Dress beret (I thought I'd post photos here rather than start a seperate thread)
As with the officer's Astrakhan version of the RTR beret this form of "parade wear" appears to have been unpopular with those who were required to wear it.
Until a couple of days ago when I read a comment by someone who thought highly of both designs of headgear I'd only read negative comments on them.

The OR's Dress beret was another short lived innovation worn during the 1960's-70's
Distinctive in that it has a deep band of black plastic, is set up very high with an integral tall, wide badge backing, it bears some considerable resemblence to a caubeen.
It was worn with a flat, inverted triangle shaped hackle.

Of the three that I own one has had the badge stiffener reduced in height by being cut down presumably by its wearer.

(As I keep the berets stored with their hackles removed I've been too idle to fit the hackles properly by removing the badges, inserting the hackles through slits cut in the berets and replacing the badges, I've simply wedged the hackles behind the badges for the photo shoot).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101248380~2.jpg (52.5 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101305827~2.jpg (38.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101138957~2.jpg (40.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101202143~2.jpg (52.4 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101209539~2.jpg (105.5 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_101118167~2.jpg (117.4 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_111934929~2.jpg (84.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112253195~2.jpg (72.2 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112334322~2.jpg (32.8 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112356942~2.jpg (41.6 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112832199~2.jpg (48.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112845640~2.jpg (42.3 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112902151~2.jpg (40.8 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190106_112953823~2.jpg (50.1 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190104_100909306~2.jpg (34.6 KB, 54 views)

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 07-01-19 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Added comment re. hackle fitting.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-02-20, 03:37 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 3,871
Default

In wear by me at Catterick 1969-70 (50 years ago!)

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 33F96C85-712C-4F67-A4D4-37948FB3C8B8.jpeg (29.7 KB, 114 views)
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 26-02-20, 11:16 AM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
In wear by me at Catterick 1969-70 (50 years ago!)

Tim
50 - years ago - and I bet the uniform still fits?

Were these berets as unpopular with those who wore them as is claimed?

My officer's dress beret finally acquired a badge a week or two ago, thanks to forum member 3dg.

It's held in place by a safety pin and a bit of Frog Tape for the photos.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20200208_122835725~2.jpg (54.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20200208_122849986~2.jpg (56.3 KB, 28 views)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 26-02-20, 01:47 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 3,871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
50 - years ago - and I bet the uniform still fits?

Were these berets as unpopular with those who wore them as is claimed?

My officer's dress beret finally acquired a badge a week or two ago, thanks to forum member 3dg.

It's held in place by a safety pin and a bit of Frog Tape for the photos.
Leigh,

Sadly the uniform must have shrunk in the wardrobe. I was a 28 inch waist in 1972!

My Troop OC wore the Astrakhan beret in 1970 but I didn’t ask if he liked it!

I have seen a reference that the CO of I think 2RTR in 1978 was the driving force in getting them dropped.

Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-03-20, 07:00 AM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

I feel that the fact my beret still fits (and over the same amount of hair) is evidence that I've kept in shape although as you point out uniforms have a built in shrink factor.

From The History of The 4th and 7th Royal Tank Regiments website:

August 1978
The Regimental log “Chinese Eye” records that this was a difficult time. The Regiment was sixty under strength – almost a squadron – and tank skills had suffered from the two Op Banner tours in quick succession. There was great pressure on all ranks and sport inevitably suffered. One piece of good news for the officers was that the ceremonial astrakhan beret was finally given the heave – officially!

http://www.4and7royaltankregiment.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 18-03-20, 10:24 AM
fearnaught fearnaught is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hove, actually
Posts: 1,595
Default

Hi, just for reference, here is an officer's dress beret with badge attached as it came. Also, I believe, a quite rare officer's black beret. The badge is the silver plated Indian made badge, best wishes Mike
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC05566.jpg (60.9 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg DSC05570.jpg (59.5 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg DSC05571.jpg (76.0 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg DSC05572.jpg (48.1 KB, 24 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 20-04-20, 09:18 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

A belated just spotted thanks button jab for that, thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22-04-20, 12:56 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,147
Default

Officers beret given to me in about 1978 by Major Rogers (friend of my fathers)
Cheers
Sean
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (48.1 KB, 9 views)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 22-04-20, 12:58 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

Nice, can you show the badge in more detail please?

Edit, just seen the image you posted on another thread.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 22-04-20, 01:01 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,147
Default

Yep, in fact put the photo of the badge on the thread about RTR badges I had started but here it is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (63.8 KB, 11 views)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 22-04-20, 01:07 PM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,038
Default

Thanks button.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 22-04-20, 01:09 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 1,147
Default

Major Rogers was King enough to give me his black beret with the Atrakhan one, but unfortunately not an officers cap badge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (36.6 KB, 13 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:46 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.