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#46
18-08-23, 05:58 PM
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Ticker Riley asked for a heads up. Chairborne, under one name or another, only has two available at the moment - both priced at £160. However the postage is 20 pence less on one of them. But please - take care out there.
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#47
19-08-23, 10:08 AM
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I still can't find the chairborne, but found the other the pattern seems to be close, but not quite the same as my silver badge the guant plate is different missing the &sons it also appears to be possibly w/m over brass but that could be the photo.I do have a post 1908 ta with a rectangular plate without &sons and I do seem to recall seeing a Leicestershire with that shaped plate and think it was in the same collection but I may be wrong, I am not so keen on the lugs
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#48
19-08-23, 11:34 AM
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Pretty certain every example in Bosley’s postal auctions dating back to whenever they started doing the small green catalogues has a Gaunt B’ham plate.
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#49
19-08-23, 12:51 PM
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Hello Keith, I have a full set of catalogues. Could you please list the relevant catalogue numbers.
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#50
20-08-23, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
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#51
21-08-23, 11:34 AM
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1/2
Quote:
The situation with Gaunt, their marks and the Leicestershire Regiment die is unusual, I’d say unique in fact. My observations based on the 1st V.B. badge and other Gaunt examples I’ve seen, many in Ticker’s collection… First consideration the plaques found on these 1st V.B.’s are quite unique, reading either: J.R. GAUNT & SON LTD ….….…B’HAM or J.R. GAUNT B’HAM Their shape too is most irregular and varies significantly. Sometimes part of the name is chopped off with the latter. The former seem to be more a uniform half moon shape. It’s very strange whatever the origins of these plates that they are found on no other fake or original badges. They appear unique to these 1st V.B. Leicesters. So if these plaques are fakes they’re extremely artisan and strange they have not strayed on to any further badges, or, carried on post this 1st V.B. cohort. It is worth perhaps bringing in here the 4th/5th/6th Bn Territorial Force badge. The below examples are held in mine and Ticker’s collections plus one other. Badge #1 Badge #2 Badge #3 (WM) Badge #4 Now my personal belief is these TF badges are infinitely likely to be genuine on basis on their own attributes. They’re sans die flaw found on the obvious BM and all GM Gaunt die restrikes. They have nice lozenge braze holes. Good strikes, nice patina etc. The conversion of one from loops to slider note the slider length and style matches as too does the (unusual) loops position if comparing the WM and BM strikes, this appears a factory modification - such is known to have occurred on other badges and it’s the type of thing that seems a faker just wouldn’t bother doing. The WM strike is very rare indeed, the metal and strike are in my experience of the good quality expected of such an early badge. Obviously some may claim these are restrikes too - sans die flaws, with brazing holes. But to me this however seems unlikely. Note all sport a highly unusual and again quite unique plaque. More regular, a neat rectangle: J.R. GAUNT B’HAM. A thought to takeaway for consideration IMO.
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#52
21-08-23, 11:35 AM
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2/2
Next worthy comparator here is the ‘certainly bad’ badges i.e. Gaunt die true restrikes with the large die flaw, found on TF and the regular pattern strikes in BM and all GM.
Note the BM strikes are all without braze holes. Poorer striking on all, some feature the classic 1970s Gaunt B’ham repro mark on the sliders. Worth maybe noting I’ve never seen a plate of any sort or description on one of these. Rewinding slightly, here we can see where this flaw has originated. It first appears in this OSD strike as a small blob above the E. Then grows in size above the E and then cuts across the L as we see on this silver and gilt officers example. The pattern certainly changed by 1949 at the latest when the reduced in sized badge with Royal was introduced following the award of the title in 1947. The ‘P’ stamp for Plate/Plated seems to have come in to use around WW2 and continues into QC era. So I think is safe to say this flaw grew sometime during the 1940s. Obviously one could say this officers badge is a restrike. But, if they repro officers badges to this quality I think it’s - game over. Therefore the TF’s and 1st V.B. badge’s origins must logically be prior to the flaw’s inception… so restrikes pre-1950? In summary, stylistically both the officers (as per ex-Walter Lambet and Margaret E. Nobbs etc.) and the ORs 1st V.B.’s are certainly not the handiwork of any two-bob 1970s or later fake die cutter. The lettering, letter ends, seeding is just too well done, esp. the officers badge. It strikes me it must almost certainly be the work of Gaunt themselves and at some considerable effort. Question remains when? Also there is clearly something highly unusual and unique happening between Gaunt and Leicesters with respect to their marks (real or fake). Question is why? Certainly there are several physical attributes to these OR 1st V.B.‘s that are not typical of a pre-1908 badge in the badge itself and fixings. The loops are on some are indeed miles apart from what one should expect for a pre-1908 badge. Others however do appear to be slightly better and closer to the mark but are definitely still not textbook. The strike itself, edges aren’t as crisp or sharp as you’d expect. The presence of plating found on many is also unusual and does not lend itself to the correct period look. I’ve aired these concerns to Ticker previously. Lastly I’ll say I’m a big fan of Ticker’s abilities and research skills. I know he believes in this badge and hugely respect his opinion. So my conclusion would be these are either unusually high quality and very professional reproductions with a small production run (or perhaps two i.e. different plates) with artisan fake makers plaques that have never been used again, or, they’re original and perhaps a case of being the ‘exception to the rule’ that so often gets talked about. This is one of those occasions where certainly disagreements among collectors, even experienced ones, will exist. My sincere thanks to members ‘Ticker’ Riley, Neil S, mook07, Deejayuu for use of their pictures.
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#55
21-08-23, 06:48 PM
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Hoping it works for you - the illustrations in posts 51 and 52 I found very informative (I think there are 27 images) Regards Mike
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#56
21-08-23, 07:03 PM
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Luke, Ticker asked for a heads-up. I was trying to be helpful and in view of his numerous, recent posts I thought there would be a good chance he would continue to read the thread. You clearly think otherwise. If any member is in touch with Martin I think he would be interested to read recent posts.
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#57
21-08-23, 07:23 PM
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It appears from a couple of posts that 1VB Leicesters Gaunt Birm or Gaunt B'ham badges have appeared in Bosley catalogues. I would be extremely grateful if any member could direct me to the auction catalogue/s. Having trawled through several dozen, without success, my old eyes are beginning to complain.
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#58
21-08-23, 07:36 PM
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I’m not sure you have missed much, a lot of pictures posted by Luke which are available on the forum, detail gone over from previous posts but no substance and a bit of fence sitting Paul
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#60
21-08-23, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Mike
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| Tags |
| leicestershire, volunteer battalion |
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can see description but no illustration
Linear Mode
