RCR shoulder titles

[Bill A]

Notes for cloth collectors. There has been some controversy about the "tail" pattern The Royal Canadian Regiment embroidered titles. Suggestions have been made that these titles were only acquired overseas in the UK. These titles have the oblique embroidery typical of UK manufacture. However, there were "tail" pattern titles acquired in Canada as well, intended for the regimental depot cadre and recruits training for reinforcements. Samples of the "tail" pattern titles were acquired from overseas, and used as patterns for Canadian made procurements. These were made with the horizontal type stitching typical of Canadian made embroidery.
Below, the first two titles appear to be Canadian made, and the two right hand titles, British.
Further notes for collectors. Titles can be found with a sloped "Y" in ROYAL and a straight "Y" in ROYAL. Suggestions have been made that the straight "Y" is a repro. It appears that some tailed straight "Y" titles have been reproduced, but there are authentic titles with the straight "Y".
When printed canvas titles were adopted in late 1942, early 1943, units with existing embroidered titles were asked to submit a title for use as a pattern. The RCR title submitted for cutting the printing screen was the sloped "Y" pattern. All printed titles should have the sloped "Y". The printed titles can be found on two weights of canvas, the heavier being early issue, 1943-44, and the lighter weight being printed after spring of 1944.

[sstaffords]

Hello Bill,

Thank you for the interesting thread on the RCR.. I have got a variation on what I believe a UK sample. It is the second title from the top, the embroidery is done in thicker silk thread like the British samples on your pics.
What is your opinion on this type title?
Thanks in advance

[Bill A]

Hi sstaffs, Nice selection of RCR titles. The top two both appear to be SWW issue. The top one is without the "tails", and the second one is the earlier issue pattern with the tails. They look good to me.
The bullion wire pattern is likely a Korean War era pattern. Many of those were acquired in Japan when the soldiers were on leave, prior to return to Canada. Bottom one is the standard canvas pattern.

[sstaffords]

Hello again,

Thank you for your swift reply.. I think the bullion type is Italian (my humble opinion), it has the low grade bullion, unlike the Japanese and Korean that were done in real silver thread, they were also done in a neater fashion then their Italian counterparts.
Italy was renowned for their embroidery and I have identical samples like Seaforth Highlanders and Three Rivers Regiment, they were as far as I know never in Korea. Other badges exist like a lot of variations on the bullion 8th army shields, FSSF flashes and all the Polish made bullion variations (they were on the bottom of the supply line). I think it is good to discuss this as I noticed a lot of Canadian collectors refer to these as ''Officer type" which I think is a bit unlikely.. Thanks again!
Alex

[Bill A]

Thanks for the analysis Alex. To date, I have not come across any information that suggests that the RCR bullion are Italian, but obviously that may be an answer.
I have a Seaforth's, Three Rivers, and Ontario in bullion as well as some Second World War Canadian formation patches. The provenance for them is sketchy. The formation patches could not possibly be Italian, as the formations in question were not in that theatre.
I have Korean examples (?) for the PPCLI, the Queen's Own Rifles, and the RCR, but I will re-examine these. I agree that they are not necessarily officers' items.

[sstaffords]

You definitely have a point there, it is a bit of a puzzle.. I compared them with British (wartime)bullion and these are even better quality. It seems these types have a kind of inferior gold or silverfrost that easily rubs of. I have attached some equivalent 8th army embroidery wich is certainly Italian from either British or Polish sources, it is quite plausible if you view the gilt finnish.
I think it is highly unlikely that they are of Duch manifacture, I have never seen anything like this after going to Dutch fairs for thirty years, nor in collections.
I don't think they are Frech or Belgium made, as 1st Divsion was reequiped in Belgium in march '45, 2nd and 3rd Division were there prior and I have never seen any of their regiment flashes in Bullion.

Sorry for rambling on, but it is quit intriguing.

[8Hussar]

Bill, I know that you like to keep track of these things so I thought that I should let you know that I have a WWII officer's battle dress with 8th Princess Louise New Brunswick Hussars shoulder flashes in bullion. I can try to dig it out this weekend and get some pictures up.