British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Infantry (& Guards) Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 27-11-08, 04:37 PM
John Mulcahy's Avatar
John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,225
Default

These Tyneside Irish Badges with slider might be around for longer than we think, I was reading through the Buletin of the Military Historical Society, vol V no. 18 November 1954 and came across the following in relation to a review of the book "Irish Heroes in the War" ...

"It is, incidentally, of interest to note that in all the photographs reproduced in this book, all ranks are wearing ordinary Northumberland Fusiliers cap badges, so notwithstanding that specimens of the "Connaught Rangers" type of Tyneside Irish badge are found with hooks-apparently for use as cap badges-it would seem that these were worn, accompanied by the appropriate numeral, as shoulder titles only

I assume that "hook" is a slider fitment and thus it looks to me as if restrikes of this shoulder title badge with slider were known as early as 1954.

John

Last edited by John Mulcahy; 27-11-08 at 05:05 PM. Reason: spelling correction
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 27-11-08, 07:02 PM
tynesideirish's Avatar
tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,128
Default

It's often cited that restrikes have been around only since the 70's, this is misleading, there's always been restrikes. Once theres money involved people cheat. The fact is that it's now easier to see other examples than it once was. So more people realise they bought some rubbish years ago.

Prior to the internet, you only had auctions and dealer lists. If you bought a fake how could you compare it? I often dispair walking around Militaria fairs with tables full of crap. The percentage of REAL badges on sale must be quite low. This hobby is full of falsehoods, legends and outright cheating all in the name of justifying the ownership or shifting dodgy badges.

There's nothing like finding a seller who sells only items he truly knows / feels are genuine and sticking with him. Buying from anywhere else is a risk, unless you know what your after.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 14-12-08, 08:12 PM
Tynesider Tynesider is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5
Default Tyneside Irish badges

If you wish to see four complete Tyneside-Irish shoulder title badges you can view them here on my web-site : Tyneside Irish

The harps are genuine 'Reid & Sons' harps with genuine battalion numerals above. These are the actual badges you will see in John Sheen's book on the battalion rolls page.

It must be noted that not every soldier in every battalion appears to have been issued complete sets, both in my own extensive photo collection and those shown in John Sheens book the majority of soldiers have no title at all, just the NF and on many occasions just the numeral.

I do have two photographs where the badge has been placed in a cap, but this is very rare and appears to be only for studio photographs.

On the subject of lugs I have genuine examples of both N-S and E-W. If its got a slider its wrong

I should also say that the picture of CQMS Joseph Coleman is from my own collection too

Last edited by Tynesider; 14-12-08 at 08:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 14-12-08, 10:08 PM
John Mulcahy's Avatar
John Mulcahy John Mulcahy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,225
Default

Welcome to the forum Tynesider, I have viewed your web site many times in the past and found it very worthwhile.

Do you have any pointers in distinguishing good "harps" with loops N&S from fake ones? I would be very interested in any insight you can provide.

Here is my own example which I am unsure of, I won't be at all suprised (or upset) if it is a fake.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tyneside irish front.jpg (76.3 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg tyneside irish back.jpg (98.1 KB, 78 views)
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 20-06-10, 10:10 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,646
Default

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tyneside-Irish...item588857526e

If I did not know that this badge was a s/t and had not seen lots of WW1 photos of the same and the NF cap badge in use, then this one might decieve one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tyneside-Irish...item588857526e

The slider looks the part and the reinforcing bar is just like a Connaught Rangers.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 20-06-10, 10:38 PM
dragonz18's Avatar
dragonz18 dragonz18 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pukekohe , New Zealand
Posts: 534
Default

Alan,
their efforts to deceive get better all the time.Only to be expected,I guess.
IMO ,the crimp is far too neat(manufactured?) to be real. And actual slider does not suit the period ?
Cheers !
Steve
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 23-11-10, 10:12 PM
Tinto's Avatar
Tinto Tinto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 2,790
Default

Hello All,
Ths is a very interesting and informative thread. I have these three badges and from what I have read so far would comment on them as follows:

Left: Has slider, so a definite restrike.
Centre: Has lugs N-S, possibly a good badge although damaged.
Right: Has lugs E-W, is correct size 42x39mm, possibly a good badge although has spill of braze on left side of scroll.

Other comments welcome.
Thanks, Tinto
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TynesideIrish.jpg (33.7 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg TynesideIrishrev.jpg (28.6 KB, 57 views)
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-03-11, 11:18 PM
martin gregory
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default doh!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wright241 View Post
TynesideIrish,
Thanks. The pipers badge came from the same source as an Officers NF 1st Vol Batt helmet plate. I'll take a pic of the complete hallmark, ltrs etc tonight - but from memory it was a "c" - not sure of the her font type though. Its also got "J.Stewart" scratched on it - very roughly - not sure whether this was the original owner or not? - the owner also told me that someone had borrowed the badge from his father - seemingly to make a solid silver copy - the original is hollow. I'll see what I can do this evening.

I have enclosed a front and rear picture of another TI badge - which I now assume to be a fake as well... its unmarked and not as sharp at the from as the re-strikes??

Rgds David
Hi David, just caught this very informative thread via another, did this TI come from me along with the 3vb and the others? If so my mistake and I'll refund, keep the badge. Just to say neither my father or I were aware that the guy that leads our local remembrance parade was going to copy the h/m 3rdvb, we found out after the fact and much hassle to get it returned minus patina. the comment is a little ambiguous. people on this forum rightly abhor fakery and i don't wish to be tarred. obviously I was upset but powerless and aside from it potentially devaluing the original led (mentally) along with my daughters needs (practically) to throwing the towel in.

incidentally as well as the four known (in NF circles) originals when i first put the plaid badge up on e bay a lady from birmingham contacted me saying she had one too. So five.

Now where's that towel. Best, Martin
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-03-11, 08:22 AM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,996
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin gregory View Post
Hi David, just caught this very informative thread via another, did this TI come from me along with the 3vb and the others? If so my mistake and I'll refund, keep the badge. Just to say neither my father or I were aware that the guy that leads our local remembrance parade was going to copy the h/m 3rdvb, we found out after the fact and much hassle to get it returned minus patina. the comment is a little ambiguous. people on this forum rightly abhor fakery and i don't wish to be tarred. obviously I was upset but powerless and aside from it potentially devaluing the original led (mentally) along with my daughters needs (practically) to throwing the towel in.

incidentally as well as the four known (in NF circles) originals when i first put the plaid badge up on e bay a lady from birmingham contacted me saying she had one too. So five.

Now where's that towel. Best, Martin
Martin,
Glad to hear the plaid brooch is still ok..... The TI did come from you but I can't recall the price...?
PM me if you wish.
David
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-03-11, 12:45 PM
wright241's Avatar
wright241 wright241 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In Luxembourg for the last 20 years and staying. They take much better care of us here....
Posts: 2,996
Default A Thank you to Martin

I would like to thank Martin for a refund (received today) on a TI badge that
I bought off him years ago (2007?) but which turned out not to be genuine. This is the only NF item I bought off him that has turned out this way.
He, at least..........., has been honourable about this and I will certainly do
further business with him, should the opportunity arise.
Thanks again.

David
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-03-11, 03:26 PM
raesherwood raesherwood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 53
Default

Which of the East-West lug 'aficionado's' is going to tell Peter Taylor he is currently offering a fake Tyneside Irish on eBay?
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-03-11, 03:34 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
Former Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Porthcawl, South Wales
Posts: 7,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raesherwood View Post
Which of the East-West lug 'aficionado's' is going to tell Peter Taylor he is currently offering a fake Tyneside Irish on eBay?
Not Me or Dave... or Dave and I if you're posh!

Don't fancy another ban!

Andy (and Dave)
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-03-11, 04:03 PM
tynesideirish's Avatar
tynesideirish tynesideirish is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1,128
Default

Nor me. I'm past caring.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-01-21, 02:25 PM
Dave67 Dave67 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tynesideirish View Post
Last couple so no excuses in future! Grin.
I have found original tyneside irish badge with Reid and Son on only issue 110 do you think this is a bit steep
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-01-21, 07:41 PM
Dave67 Dave67 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 31
Default

http://c https://www.cultmancollectables.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=4754&search=Tyneside+irish

Would you say this is original thinking about it
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
tyneside irish

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:26 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.