War Period & Post War Period Badges

[Motor Machine Gun]

Some badges changed after the Wars end as can be seen here.
The 1st Canadian Motor Machine Gun Collar on the left is from WW1 and the collar on the right is a post War collar to the same Unit.(1920 - 1935)
I don't know why they changed it , and the only difference is the Beaver ?
Does anyone else have similar badges that changed over the years ?
I did once get into a big argument with a chap who was selling the "Post War Collar" on ebay as a WW1 Collar.
He would not change his description of it and some poor buyer got "took".

Les

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Motor Machine Gun

Some badges changed after the Wars end as can be seen here.
The 1st Canadian Motor Machine Gun Collar on the left is from WW1 and the collar on the right is a post War collar to the same Unit.(1920 - 1935)
I don't know why they changed it , and the only difference is the Beaver ?
Does anyone else have similar badges that changed over the years ?
I did once get into a big argument with a chap who was selling the "Post War Collar" on ebay as a WW1 Collar.
He would not change his description of it and some poor buyer got "took".

Les

A great many British and Commonwealth units changed the design of their regimental accoutrements after WW1. The 4 most common reasons for this are: 1. The award of Royal status, or change in the sequence of a title (e.g. Norfolk Regiment to Royal Norfolk Regt). 2. The award of specific battle honours affixed to the badge (e.g. The Rifle Brigade) 3. The dislike and/or ridicule of a Regt badge (e.g. The Manchester Regt from so-called 'Tram-Drivers badge' to the 'Fleur de Lys' of a defeated French Regt. 4. The merger of 2 previously independent units (e.g. The Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regt).

[jeanpit-frenchy]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

A great many British and Commonwealth units changed the design of their regimental accoutrements after WW1. The 4 most common reasons for this are: 1. The award of Royal status, or change in the sequence of a title (e.g. Norfolk Regiment to Royal Norfolk Regt). 2. The award of specific battle honours affixed to the badge (e.g. The Rifle Brigade) 3. The dislike and/or ridicule of a Regt badge (e.g. The Manchester Regt from so-called 'Tram-Drivers badge' to the 'Fleur de Lys' of a defeated French Regt.

ok, i am totaly agree with you . but also strange... change

like the flag of INNISKILLING (left before war and right post war..)

the tyneside scottish (lions and towers.....3 différents during the WW1....

east surrey (imperial crown....King crown)

etc etc......

for me it's a mystery too.(i like mystery...)
but i'm french and for the froggys ,british are strange people .
it's a jok....

[Alan O]

I can shed light on the Inniskillings. There were 3 badge designs - the Castle on grenade flag left upto 1926, the silver castle and scroll (shown below) 1926-34 and then the flag right version post 1934.

The regtl journal had an article on the change in badge. This is an extract provided by a member of another forum when answering a question posed about the badge design. An explanation of why this change happened is below:

'The second attempt to go back to a more authentic design (was made in 1926 when Major W.E. Rothwell, second in command of the 1st battalion, happening upon the aforesaid coloured drawing at Winsor was struck by the dissimilarity between the representation of the castle on the traditional upright type that had been in use for so long, and persuaded Liiet-Colonel R.C. SMythe, commanding the battalion to make application for an entirely new cap badge consisting ofa long low castle with "Inniskilling" on a scroll above anfd of course seperate from it.

Permission having been granted the new badge was awaited without any precautions being taken to ensure that the finished article was according to specification - with the result that when the Other Ranks badge was received it was found that to simplify manufacture, the device had been made a one-piece affair with the scroll affixed to the turrets, which gave it an entirely different appearance from that which had been intended..... The new badge was unpopular from the first. Among the officers it became known as "Augher Castle" to distinguish it from the older pattern, that being the name of Colonel Smyth's residence at the time, and Colonel Lloyd Davidson, to whom the innovation in itself was in any case distasteful, dubbed it Smythe's barn"

" The fact that , apart from shortcomings of design and accidents in manufacture, officers and men wearing the new badge were not recognised an Inniskillings - and it would not do. In 1934 the war office were persuaded to give reluctant consent to the former cap badge being reinstated, although a slightly modified form of the new shape of castle has been retained for many other purposes ever since"


What is not clear is why the flag changed from left to right in 1934. Hope this is of interest.

Alan

[jeanpit-frenchy]

thank you alan....i'm very interested ....

i dont know the second '26-34' badge, i only know the pipers badges who is similar.

nice job...

[54Bty]

I have not checked this yet, but, I think that to be correct in Heraldry a flags hoist should be on the left and the fly on the right.

[harribobs]

with the Manchester Regiment, it was so much as a change to a new badge, but going back to badge used previously in the regiment's history



the 7th Battalion (TF) used a floriated fleur de lys when it was the 4th VB Manchester regiment, and through the great war, as these sgts proudly wear their FdL badges



this 'rare' badge has been copied so much i suspect there are more of them around now than standard manchester coat of arms badges

the wearing of a fleur de lys goes back as far as 1800 ( see below)