Unwelcome visitors

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Hoot

Blimey JT, three of the cast were at the show, I thought they were all dead!!.

Can't be many of them left!

[magpie]

At least they didn't seem to be the wrong side of 55 and bursting out of their uniforms in that picture

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by magpie

At least they didn't seem to be the wrong side of 55 and bursting out of their uniforms in that picture

[Gary B]

God - take me now....

A father dressing his 9-year-old son up in an SS uniform? What the hell has this country come to when people do such things?
Every militaria fair I attend is chock-a-block full of Nazi daggers and Japanese swords, it's almost as if anything other than Axis weaponry is regarded as tat.

I know I'm a dinosaur in many respects - but the factory I learnt my trade in was full of WW2 veterans - top, top men in my opinion. I vividly remember a delegation of German businessmen visiting the mill in 1973 - and half a dozen of the guys (all WW2 vets) simply pulled the handles in on their looms and walked out - they said they wouldn't "share the same air" as the visitors... Yet here we are, dressing children up in SS uniforms.

Surely it can only be down to ignorance on the part of the "parents"???

S*d it, it's gin time for me...

[RSM]

I attended this event as a member of a military vehicle group. I know the blokes in the SS group, and what you're reading in the press is nothing like what actually happened.

They have been attending this event for years and have never had a problem from the public before. The public jeering and cat calling referred to in the articles were nothing but pantomine, "look out here's the Geeermans", "you bombed our chipshop" and "you're name vill go in zee book". The group certainly weren't goose stepping down the high street giving Nazi salutes, it's far too crowded for that and it's not the kind of thing they would do. I was there watching them interacting with a good natured crowd, having photos taken, selfies from bystanders etc.

And then a fellow kicked off. He was drunk, or on drugs, but three times he launched himself into the group and three times they pushed him away. The event marshalls got involved, a lady was pulled over by her dog and hurt herself in all the commotion, and the police were called. It transpires that the individual who kicked off was a local 'badboy' and well known to the local coppers. He was bundled away by them, and one of the other bobbies quietly advised the group that it's probaby for the best if they left, which they did. (Interestingly, numerous members of the public went straight up to the group and said they saw what happened and would back the group up as witness if required.)

Not connected, but later on that day, as we were preparing to take our WW2 Allied vehicles on the parade through the town, a marshall, who was politely asking the public to clear the street was savagely punched in the face by a drunk, so much so that his cheek was split open with blood pouring down his face. That was truely shocking.

So there we are. I was there, that's what I saw. Don't believe the press.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by RSM

I attended this event as a member of a military vehicle group. I know the blokes in the SS group, and what you're reading in the press is nothing like what actually happened.

They have been attending this event for years and have never had a problem from the public before. The public jeering and cat calling referred to in the articles were nothing but pantomine, "look out here's the Geeermans", "you bombed our chipshop" and "you're name vill go in zee book". The group certainly weren't goose stepping down the high street giving Nazi salutes, it's far too crowded for that and it's not the kind of thing they would do. I was there watching them interacting with a good natured crowd, having photos taken, selfies from bystanders etc.

And then a fellow kicked off. He was drunk, or on drugs, but three times he launched himself into the group and three times they pushed him away. The event marshalls got involved, a lady was pulled over by her dog and hurt herself in all the commotion, and the police were called. It transpires that the individual who kicked off was a local 'badboy' and well known to the local coppers. He was bundled away by them, and one of the other bobbies quietly advised the group that it's probaby for the best if they left, which they did. (Interestingly, numerous members of the public went straight up to the group and said they saw what happened and would back the group up as witness if required.)

Not connected, but later on that day, as we were preparing to take our WW2 Allied vehicles on the parade through the town, a marshall, who was politely asking the public to clear the street was savagely punched in the face by a drunk, so much so that his cheek was split open with blood pouring down his face. That was truely shocking.

So there we are. I was there, that's what I saw. Don't believe the press.

Superb. Thank you.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Gary B

God - take me now....

A father dressing his 9-year-old son up in an SS uniform? What the hell has this country come to when people do such things?
Every militaria fair I attend is chock-a-block full of Nazi daggers and Japanese swords, it's almost as if anything other than Axis weaponry is regarded as tat.

I know I'm a dinosaur in many respects - but the factory I learnt my trade in was full of WW2 veterans - top, top men in my opinion. I vividly remember a delegation of German businessmen visiting the mill in 1973 - and half a dozen of the guys (all WW2 vets) simply pulled the handles in on their looms and walked out - they said they wouldn't "share the same air" as the visitors... Yet here we are, dressing children up in SS uniforms.

Surely it can only be down to ignorance on the part of the "parents"???

S*d it, it's gin time for me...

I think in that instance 'ignorance' may be le mot juste. I'm reminded of the fairly recent outrage caused by people posting selfies they had taken on the railway tracks leading into Auschwitz, the same tracks that transported trainloads of Holocaust victims during WW2. Makes you wonder what on earth these people must have been thinking... or NOT, as the case may be.

JT

[Gary B]

JT - that reminds me of when I had to drag my missus away from a group of young Japanese tourists taking selfies and doing V for victory signs on the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii (we lived there for a while before coming back to the West Midlands.... yeah, I know - I think I missed the smell of the drop forge...) Some people simply don't "get" dignified respect and remembrance.

That said, my Long Haired General wasn't particularly reserved when she ripped 'em several new ones either, bless her!

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Gary B

JT - that reminds me of when I had to drag my missus away from a group of young Japanese tourists taking selfies and doing V for victory signs on the USS Arizona Memorial in Hawaii (we lived there for a while before coming back to the West Midlands.... yeah, I know - I think I missed the smell of the drop forge...) Some people simply don't "get" dignified respect and remembrance.

That said, my Long Haired General wasn't particularly reserved when she ripped 'em several new ones either, bless her!

I see it frequently as I pass the Tower Hill Memorial, in London - tourists (mainly, I assume) literally climbing all over it, jumping off it, posing for photos up between its columns, displaying an incomprehensible absence of reverence or respect.

JT

[btns]

Just found a bunch of these patches in one of my late dad's junk boxes.
Genuine or fake, no place for such cr..p in my house.

No bad words on dad. I have his British Army number(s). My Royal Army Sleeping Corps badges were his.

I also found the well known 6 pointed yellow star. This I feel I cannot dispose of.

My comments on SS reeacting: it should be prohibited by law.

[Gary B]

btns - I love your reference to the "Royal Army Sleeping Corps" - I had 2 uncles in the RASC and my grandad was in the ASC in WW1. When asked about his service my one uncle would always say he'd served with the "Run Away Somebody's Coming" - which in reality was just bluff - he'd won campaign medals for North Africa, Italy, France + Germany - the RASC were pretty much always where the fighting was, God bless 'em!

With regards to your comments about SS re-enactors, I agree totally - I've yet to hear a cogent or reasonable explanation for why people should want to "copy" the attire and demeanor of a bunch of murderers... In a piece found online (about Mental Wellness) a doctor wrote:
"It’s a classic line that gets thrown around; if you notice a ‘copycat’ often people will respond ‘take it as a compliment’ ‘copying is flattery’ however, I couldn’t help but wonder if someone copies you, are they really complimenting you or is it a sign of a narcissistic personality?" He went on, "Now don’t get me wrong I think if someone copied you once, they wouldn’t necessarily be considered a narcissist, but if this behaviour is constant over a long period of time could it highlight some traits within their personality?"

Now I'm certainly no expert, but if re-enactors are copying SS murderers as a compliment - then they need help... but if they are copying them because they're narcissists, then yet again, they need help...

I totally get the points made by RSM (above) and accept that the re-enactors were innocent of any criminality, but if they're really interested in "living history" why weren't they dressed as KSLI or KOYLI soldiers from the same period?

[Markus Bodeux]

Agree 100%.
You should should copy and paste §§86+86a from the german criminal code to the british:

Criminal Code (StGB)
§ 86a Use of symbols of unconstitutional and terrorist organizations
(1) Whoever shall be punished with a prison sentence of up to three years or a fine
1.
Distributed or used publicly, in a meeting or in content distributed by the parties or associations referred to in Section 86 Paragraph 1 Numbers 1, 2 and 4 or Paragraph 2 within the country (Section 11 Paragraph 3) or
2.
produces, holds in stock, imports or exports content (§ 11 paragraph 3) that represents or contains such a mark for distribution or use at home or abroad in the manner specified in number 1.
(2) Characteristics within the meaning of paragraph 1 include flags, badges, uniforms, slogans and greetings. The characteristics mentioned in sentence 1 are equivalent to those that are confusingly similar.
(3) Section 86 paragraphs 4 and 5 apply accordingly.

Kind regards from Germany,
Markus

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Markus Bodeux

Agree 100%.
You should should copy and paste §§86+86a from the german criminal code to the british:

Criminal Code (StGB)
§ 86a Use of symbols of unconstitutional and terrorist organizations
(1) Whoever shall be punished with a prison sentence of up to three years or a fine
1.
Distributed or used publicly, in a meeting or in content distributed by the parties or associations referred to in Section 86 Paragraph 1 Numbers 1, 2 and 4 or Paragraph 2 within the country (Section 11 Paragraph 3) or
2.
produces, holds in stock, imports or exports content (§ 11 paragraph 3) that represents or contains such a mark for distribution or use at home or abroad in the manner specified in number 1.
(2) Characteristics within the meaning of paragraph 1 include flags, badges, uniforms, slogans and greetings. The characteristics mentioned in sentence 1 are equivalent to those that are confusingly similar.
(3) Section 86 paragraphs 4 and 5 apply accordingly.

Kind regards from Germany,
Markus

Anyone recall, back in the mid/late-70s, punk rockers wearing swastika vests, t-shirts, and armbands?

The passage of time, and the shift in social attitudes, today renders the wearing of such apparel more than unpalatable, but when it was happening back then, the shock was not even remotely connected with the occasional display of Nazi symbols, but with the then-outrageous hairstyles, chains, foul language, spikes, makeup, body piercings, anti-social, anti-establishment, anti-everything, two-fingers-to-the-world punk attitude and music. Nazi-related items of clothing that were adopted and incorporated into the scene seemed then to be of no consequence to anyone, paling in significance against the emergence of this alarming youth-culture typhoon. Punk was so shocking at that time, that it even out-shocked the wearing of Nazi swastikas.

Sid Vicious.jpg Rotten & Souixsie.jpg Today 1976.jpg

JT

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Anyone recall, back in the mid/late-70s, punk rockers wearing swastika vests, t-shirts, and armbands?

The passage of time, and the shift in social attitudes, today renders the wearing of such apparel more than unpalatable, but when it was happening back then, the shock was not even remotely connected with the occasional display of Nazi symbols, but with the then-outrageous hairstyles, chains, foul language, spikes, makeup, body piercings, anti-social, anti-establishment, anti-everything, two-fingers-to-the-world punk attitude and music. Nazi-related items of clothing that were adopted and incorporated into the scene seemed then to be of no consequence to anyone, paling in significance against the emergence of this alarming youth-culture typhoon. Punk was so shocking at that time, that it even out-shocked the wearing of Nazi swastikas.

Attachment 290012 Attachment 290013

JT

It's a funny old world JT. When Adolph got Ferdinand Porsche and his team to design a "Peoples Car" (Yes I know it's debatable as to who really designed it) I doubt he imagined for one minute that VW would go on to sell over 20 million of them worldwide. The association with the Nazi head honcho clearly never deterred people from buying them and that included a lot of Allied veterans. The cars sold well because they were seen as being reliable and well put together and their origins were of no consequence to anyone apparently. It's what's known as "Getting over it". Buying a Beetle could have been construed as being pro-Nazi but I don't recall that ever being the case. Anyway I always preferred the Hillman Imp myself, a good old British mixture of pleasure, pain and sometimes sheer frustration, happy days.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Hoot

It's a funny old world JT. When Adolph got Ferdinand Porsche and his team to design a "Peoples Car" (Yes I know it's debatable as to who really designed it) I doubt he imagined for one minute that VW would go on to sell over 20 million of them worldwide. The association with the Nazi head honcho clearly never deterred people from buying them and that included a lot of Allied veterans. The cars sold well because they were seen as being reliable and well put together and their origins were of no consequence to anyone apparently. It's what's known as "Getting over it". Buying a Beetle could have been construed as being pro-Nazi but I don't recall that ever being the case. Anyway I always preferred the Hillman Imp myself, a good old British mixture of pleasure, pain and sometimes sheer frustration, happy days.

H,

Hillman Imp! Engine in the boot; boot in the engine compartment. There the Beetle similarity ends.

JT