Unknown 'Pouch' with brass badge

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by Cribyn

Hello

First off a big 'thank you' to Griff. You were quite right! A few minutes with a silver polish and the muck started to lift off and the badge is silver after all! Just goes to show that Griff is right, a gentle wash with soap and water sometimes is just not enough! Thanks Griff!

Thanks also to btns for the drawing and suggested identification. I tried the drawing method and could get no sensible result. I was being confused by the scroll bottom right which made it look as if there was an 'L' in there somewhere.

Thanks also to GTB and to Alex for their confirmation of various points.

I now believe it is a police badge, almost certainly colonial. I have had another look at the articles written by Howard Ripley and Denis Darmanin on colonial police buttons and whilst the badge is not always the same design as the button, the button for the Burma Police seems to be the closest match.

Unless someone comes forward with a more positive ID then I will be content with this one as 'Burma Police'.

Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread.

Regards
Roger

Roger,

NEVER use polish on a silver badge. If you want to clean anything which is silver or silver plated immerse it in "Goddard's" silver dip or similar and then rinse well after. Never rub anything which is silver, you will take away the surface. Plus, on intricate items such as the badge under discussion you will not be able to remove the residue which remains in the nooks and crannies. Silver dip is your best bet. I agree, you badge is more than likely Burma Police.

Dave.

[Paul Spellman]

If you look here www.hubert-herald.nl there are some Burma Police badges.
If you enter the site then search B click on Burma and then click on the Armed Forces scroll down they are there. Similar scroll badge with crown but no wreath is shown.
It is an interesting site for other stuff too.
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

Said badge in link

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

Yes "BP" I can see that now that it's been pointed out/highlighted but I must admit that I couldn't work that out at all before. I'm hopeless at working out script/cyphers, I think our brains must be wired differently!

Given that it's "BP", cast, silver then Burma Police is certainly the most likely candidate although I wouldn't entirely rule out Bombay Police.

David

[Cribyn]

Hello Paul and David

Many thanks for your comments and for the link, Paul, a very useful site.

I opted for 'Burma Police' rather than 'Bombay Police' solely because the only information I have is on their buttons! The Burma Police did use a button with a crown and similar wreath with the letters 'BP', whereas the Bombay Police button is just a crown and the letters 'BP'.

Given the new information it could be either. At least we seem to have a consensus that it is 'BP' as in 'B...... Police'!

Thanks again,
Roger

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

I looked at the Burma Police badges in Renfrew & Cranston and there are three shown. Two are similar to the badge shown on the left by Paul; one is large in brass and the other small in white metal. The third is a brass Victorian badge with QVC over a bugle horn, "BP" in capitals within the horn. So, no clues there.

Interestingly, there is a brown leather pouch shown from the Mandalay Battalion of the Burma Military Police - note this is not the same organisation as the civil police. This has a WM badge KC/ an oval with stylised "MBMP", all partly within a wreath. This dates 1920's/1930's.

David

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by Cribyn

Hello Paul and David

Many thanks for your comments and for the link, Paul, a very useful site.

I opted for 'Burma Police' rather than 'Bombay Police' solely because the only information I have is on their buttons! The Burma Police did use a button with a crown and similar wreath with the letters 'BP', whereas the Bombay Police button is just a crown and the letters 'BP'.

Given the new information it could be either. At least we seem to have a consensus that it is 'BP' as in 'B...... Police'!

Thanks again,
Roger

Hi Roger

Your comments sent me off to check my Indian Police buttons.

Bombay Police - QVC & KC versions with crown over "BP" script.

Burma Police - QVC & KC versions with crown over "BP" script within wreath

but also KC/"BP" script, no wreath. The only thing to differentiate them from Bombay is an outer ring around the button. I'm not sure when these were introduced, obviously post 1902 but possibly post 1937 when Burma separated from India?


Following that logic, although I still wouldn't rule out Bombay Police, I would definitely place my bet on Burma Police!

David

PS.... even I can quite easily work out the "BP" script on both the Burma and Bombay Police buttons, they are not as interlaced/ornate as on your pouch badge.

[Khyber]

I always thought that the only buttons to Bombay Police are with 'Bombay District Police' and 'Bombay City Police' - the I have badges to BDP within a wreath and there is BCP also within a wreath (which I don't have)

Can you post pictures to show Bombay Police and Burma Police and how can you tell conclusively. To my mind all BP buttons are Burma Police. I've also read somewhere that it might be Bengal Police. How does one diffrenciate?

[Cribyn]

Hello Khyber

I don't have any of the buttons myself, outside my area of interest but I was going by an article written by Denis Darmanin and Howard Ripley some years ago in the Journal of the British Button Society.

I don't think I am allowed to copy parts of that article to put on this Forum but the buttons illustrated are:-

Bombay Police, KC (also QVC) over entwined initials 'BP', no rim;

Burma Police, KC (also QVC) over same style initials within a wreath, no rim.

Also for the Burma Police there is a version similar to that for Bombay but with a rim.

The only button illustrated for Bengal is one tentatively ascribed to the 'Bengal Armed Police' - KC over initials 'BAP' within a wreath.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject and access to the actual buttons will be able to post photos.

Regards
Roger

[High Wood]

Burma Police, Rangoon 1920's. Not the clearest of images as the images are taken from a framed photograph.

[peter monahan]

I'm still on the fence, as I certainly agree that Bombay and Burma Police are strong contenders but am not sure why we seem to have veered away from all of the other 'B' colonial police forces. The similarity in the badges is there, but I'd have expected, without checking, that 'crown + Cipher + wreath' would fit at least half the forces out there in 1930 for example.

[tarabelle]

Hi

KC version perhaps at this site ?

http://www.hubert-herald.nl/MyanmarAF.htm

T

[Khyber]

Thanks for the photos. Hvae seen them before on this forum I believe, but the close-ups are helpful.

I have one of those magnificient shoulder belt badges shown in the photo to the IP in hallmarked silver..

[Khyber]

I would like to know who the Burman in the third photo is. He's wearing something that looks like the Indian Order of Merit (IOM) but its supsended from the neck, while it should be with his other medals on his chest. Is that a decoration? can any one tell??

[Khyber]

Here's a photo of some Bombay Police buttons - Bombay City Police (Victorian and later) and Bombay District Police.