Slouch hats, some information

[JerryBB]

Some information on circa WWII Australian slouch hats. I assume some others can add more information or correct any mistakes I have made.

Pre and early WWII examples have tan cloth edge trim and hook and eye fittings to allow the brim to be fixed up. The example of this type I own is undated.

Sometime circa 1941/42 the cloth trim is removed and press stud/poppers marked Carr Aust are introduced to hold up the brim trim. I have 42 and 43 dated examples of this type.

Both the above types have red brown grommets/vent holes though toward the end of the war green grommets are introduced which is the type seen on post war examples which also see the reintroduction of the cloth edge trim though this becomes green.

At some stage in the 50's or 60's they go back to using hook and eye fixings. the example of this type I have has its date mark worn away and someone has added a WWII type of rising sun badge to it, but it still shows the type. Examples of this type can be seen on ebay on a regular basis.

[JerryBB]

British made slouch hats of the WWII period do not follow such a set chronology as the Aussie versions and are seemingly made to suit the whims of the different makers. None that I have seen have hook and eye fittings nor do they have cloth trim and instead all have popper brim fitting. In terms of grommets, they range from having only two, with or without metal fixings and three and five hole types exist and those with metal fittings are always in green in my experience. One maker users a zigzag spacer to fit the sweatband whilst one users a foil lining to the dome as is seen on some sun helmets. The latest dated British slouch hat I have seen is 1952, though the Aussies continued to use them.

[manchesters]

Jerry,

Which Regiment is the cloth pagri badge to please?

regards

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Jerry,

Which Regiment is the cloth pagri badge to please?

regards

Welch Regiment. Mike

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Jerry,

Which Regiment is the cloth pagri badge to please?

regards

The badge on the turn up is for the Welch regiment.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Welch Regiment. Mike

On the bush hat it will have been worn by 2 Welch in 62 Indian Inf Bde in India and Burma. The same flash was worn below the formation sign and two Infantry AoS strips by 1/5 Welch in 158 inf Bde, 53 (W) Inf Div in NW Europe 1944/45. Mike

[David Tremain]

The slouch hat in my possession, which belonged to my grandfather (see illustration in Glossary), who served in the Royal Artillery and Royal Signals in India and Burma, is marked on the inside rim "Wards" above a shield, with VIII and 42 either side of the shield. Underneath is the broad arrow mark /|\. The chin strap is affixed to the inner of the leather sweat band. There is a press stud which holds up the turned up brim.

David

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by David Tremain

The slouch hat in my possession, which belonged to my grandfather (see illustration in Glossary), who served in the Royal Artillery and Royal Signals in India and Burma, is marked on the inside rim "Wards" above a shield, with VIII and 42 either side of the shield. Underneath is the broad arrow mark /|\. The chin strap is affixed to the inner of the leather sweat band. There is a press stud which holds up the turned up brim.

David

A fine example David, especially as its a family item.

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

On the bush hat it will have been worn by 2 Welch in 62 Indian Inf Bde in India and Burma. The same flash was worn below the formation sign and two Infantry AoS strips by 1/5 Welch in 158 inf Bde, 53 (W) Inf Div in NW Europe 1944/45. Mike

I also have it on a post war BD 1953 dated along with a lanyard in regimental colours.

[Lancer 17]

G'day Jerry

l have 2 Aussie slouch hats sitting on the bench beside me, one is my fathers and the other belonged to my former neighbour who I grew up knowing all my life.

My dad served in New Guinea in Signals and was out in the jungle for months at a time, any uniforn he had on his return to Port Morsby would have been burnt. He was in camp in Melbourne when peace was declared in August 1945 and I was born in July the following year. You do the maths !

Dad was issued with a complete new uniform before he was discharged his slouch is dated 1944 and No121, Fur Felt and D ^ D but has no makers name. It has a 6 pleat puggarie. It has 2 white metal grommets on either side of the crown and a press stud to hold the brim up. The Rising Sun has 2 lugs fixing it to the turn up but I dont know if its named or not and Im not going to take it off to find out. The hat is as new, the Bash or crease is deep and well formed and the is a good well formed "dimple" on either side of the crown.

The other hat belonged to Maj AJ Thomas who was in Ordnance, I have his complete uniform and mess dress except for his peaked cap and medals. His uniform has the ribbon for the Pacific Star only and I have no information on his service.

His slouch hat is imbossed with a number and 1942, this is quite hard to read. This hat has seen more use than my fathers, it has no binding to the brim, there are 2 brown grommets to either side of the crown, the puggarie has 5 pleats, the brim is held up by a press stud, the Rising Sun has 2 lugs and is easily removed from the hat and is unnamed.

I have acess to several other slouch hats at the military museum where I volunteer and can add further details if it is wanted.

l hope that this helps.

regards

Phil.

[fairlie63]

MAJ A J Thomas was a former Permanent soldier who was given an honorary commission in 1938 and was in the RAE Works Branch. He was the Staff Officer Engineer Services SA L of C Area in 1942.

I'll look up his pre and post-war service in the Army Lists when I get home from work tonight.

Keith

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Lancer 17

G'day Jerry

l have 2 Aussie slouch hats sitting on the bench beside me, one is my fathers and the other belonged to my former neighbour who I grew up knowing all my life.

My dad served in New Guinea in Signals and was out in the jungle for months at a time, any uniforn he had on his return to Port Morsby would have been burnt. He was in camp in Melbourne when peace was declared in August 1945 and I was born in July the following year. You do the maths !

Dad was issued with a complete new uniform before he was discharged his slouch is dated 1944 and No121, Fur Felt and D ^ D but has no makers name. It has a 6 pleat puggarie. It has 2 white metal grommets on either side of the crown and a press stud to hold the brim up. The Rising Sun has 2 lugs fixing it to the turn up but I dont know if its named or not and Im not going to take it off to find out. The hat is as new, the Bash or crease is deep and well formed and the is a good well formed "dimple" on either side of the crown.

The other hat belonged to Maj AJ Thomas who was in Ordnance, I have his complete uniform and mess dress except for his peaked cap and medals. His uniform has the ribbon for the Pacific Star only and I have no information on his service.

His slouch hat is imbossed with a number and 1942, this is quite hard to read. This hat has seen more use than my fathers, it has no binding to the brim, there are 2 brown grommets to either side of the crown, the puggarie has 5 pleats, the brim is held up by a press stud, the Rising Sun has 2 lugs and is easily removed from the hat and is unnamed.

I have acess to several other slouch hats at the military museum where I volunteer and can add further details if it is wanted.

l hope that this helps.

regards

Phil.

Hi Phil,

thanks for your information and it would be great to see some pics.

Most of the wartime issues from circa late 1941 onward tend not to have a makers name on them but instead have a letter code for the state and a number which are the makers id, though I don't think there is a list for which makers used which letter/# number combination. They also have the date and the size, though most do not seem to have the D/I\D marking that I have seen.

[Lancer 17]

Originally Posted by fairlie63

MAJ A J Thomas was a former Permanent soldier who was given an honorary commission in 1938 and was in the RAE Works Branch. He was the Staff Officer Engineer Services SA L of C Area in 1942.

I'll look up his pre and post-war service in the Army Lists when I get home from work tonight.

Keith

Hi Keith

Maj Thomas was the manager of Foy & Gibsons, a department store (like Myer) that was located on the corner of Swanston St and Bourke St, now the Bourke St mall. His mess dress has ordnance badges. l doubt that he was in anything to do with engineers as he would struggle to use a screw driver ! His full name is Arthur John Thomas and known as John. I know that he was on the reserve officers list for many years.

Regards

Phil.

[Lancer 17]

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Hi Phil,

thanks for your information and it would be great to see some pics.

Most of the wartime issues from circa late 1941 onward tend not to have a makers name on them but instead have a letter code for the state and a number which are the makers id, though I don't think there is a list for which makers used which letter/# number combination. They also have the date and the size, though most do not seem to have the D/I\D marking that I have seen.

Hi Jerry

Thats the sort of markings on the band, but it is v hard to read even with a magnifying glass.

Re photos, sorry they totally defeat me. However I can email you photos if you want to PM me your email address.


By the way I dont know if you are aware but the WW1 slouch hat is a much larger one than the WW2 and later ones. The crown is much higher and the top is flatish rather than having a bash on top. I have some photos of one, I think and will have a look and let you know.

All for now.

regards

Phil.

[ASR142]

Hi Jerry & Chaps
As promised this example is made by F J ELLIOTT AN D CO LTD FROM ATHERSTONE AND IS 1959 DATED its in quite nice condition cheers steve