Mess Dress ID Infantry

[Peter Marshall]

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Hi

I am after identification of this recently aquired mess dress. Obviously a territorial battalion so post 1908. It appears early though as it has an internal leather band.
The buttons are flat with a sphinx in white metal
There are holes in the lapels where 2 collar dogs have been removed.

Thanks in advance

Pete

[davidwyke]

Hi Pete

As far as the Mess buttons are concerned, I would think they are Lincolnshire Regt.

David


Just thought - the old 10th Foot had yellow uniform facings. They changed to white in 1881 but perhaps the original colour was retained for Mess Dress?

David

[Peter Marshall]

Hi david

Thanks for that, the facings are white ...just my camera

thanks

[Peter Marshall]

Doesnt look like a Lincolnshire sphynx to me...

[Cribyn]

Hello Pete

Going by the button shown I would have to agree with David, Lincolnshire Regiment. Not sure off hand if any other regiments used the sphinx over Egypt on their mess dress buttons.

Mess dress buttons are something of a neglected area, the only reference I know (other than Dress Regulations) is Howard Ripley's original book on Buttons of the British Army which has 4 pages devoted to these buttons. Sphinx over Egypt is down as being Lincolnshire Regiment, although the tail does point in the opposite direction in the button illustrated!

Regards
Roger

[Lincolnsreg]

The buttons are Lincolns mess buttons - just a variation with the tail up. And they had white facings throughout the first half of the 20th century. Nice item!

[davidwyke]

Hi chaps

As far as I know, only Lincolnshire Regt had mess buttons with Sphinx/Egypt. I have examples in my collection with both the tail up and down, also flat and domed.

David

[Peter Marshall]

Many thanks chaps - Lincolns it is then

[davidwyke]

In addition to Dress Regs & Ripley, another reference for Mess buttons is "Shoulder-Belt Plates & Buttons" (Parkyn). He gives brief details for most regts although he is really only quoting from Dress Regs in most cases.

As Roger mentiomed above, it is a very neglected field of collecting.

David

[REMEVMBEA1]

Originally Posted by Peter Marshall

Many thanks chaps - Lincolns it is then

I think one of the nicknames for the Lincolns was Yellowbellies from the colours of their original facings.

[Toby Purcell]

The Lincolns generally used a male sphinx for insignia whereas the buttons show a female. That said, the 1904 dress regs do stipulate a flat gilt button on waistcoats with the sphinx mounted thereon in silver. Howard Ripley also confirms the button (with female sphinx) as the Lincoln's Mess Dress button in his book - Buttons of the British Army.

[Peter Marshall]

Thanks Toby

That is what I thought the Lincolns sphinx looks nothing like the female sphinx. I have also had a look in Ripleys book and the illustration is like the buttons on this mess jacket, however I own a peaked cap which belonged to a Colonel in the 4th VB Manchester regt and the 2 buttons on that are the same design as the mess buttons except domed instead of flat and a gilt sphinx on a silver button
I am not saying the jacket is manchesters but I honestly dont think its Lincolns either.

Cheers

pete

[davidwyke]

Hello Pete

According to Parkyn, 1904 Dress Regulations for the Manchester Regt show the Mess Dress buttons to be as for the tunic but mounted in silver.

As far as I know Lincolnshire Regt are the only Regt in Dress Regs to have the Sphinx/Egypt mess buttons.

Having said that, I have an extensive collection of Mess buttons but I've never come across one of the Manchester pattern described in Parkyn. I wonder if anyone else has got one or seen one? If not, perhaps Manchesters did wear the Sphinx/Egypt buttons.

David

[Cribyn]

Hello David

I have a mess dress button which matches Parkyn's description and I have always had this as being the Manchester Regiment. King's crown over sphinx and Egypt within a garter, silver mounted on gilt.

It is too dark now to take a photo but I will do so in the morning and post it here - unless someone beats me to it!

Regards
Roger

[davidwyke]

Hello Roger

Your button sounds like Manchester Regt to me, as per Dress Regs & Parkyn. I don't know what to make of it, unless the pattern changed at some stage?

David

PS....I don't think it's a case of different battalions wearing different mess buttons given that the jacket is from a Territorial Bn - they wouldn't have the "Egypt" honour. So, whichever regt it is I think it's safe to assume that the "T" bn's were wearing the same buttons as the regular bn's.