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#1
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15th loodianah Sikhs Pagri Badge "Date"
Hi my fellow badgers,
Picked this pagri badge up the other week, I thought it going to be dated to around 1900 but when it arrived and I'd actually looked at it in the flesh, I think it seems to be older than I first thought. Could someone with a bit more knowledge than me tell me what sort of date it could actually be please. Cheers. Kev. |
#2
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Hi Kev
Your badge is actually illustrated in Ashok Nath's Sowars and Sepoys and the book depicts the badges worn in WW1. It's also shown in Cox. The fact that it has a Victorian crown would not in itself preclude it being worn in WW1 - but you might also be spot on in that it might be earlier. Tim |
#3
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Thanks Tim for the info, I know they were also known as the 15th Ludhiana Sikhs, but I don't know when they changed from the loodianah Sikhs to the Ludhiana Sikhs and if the name was changed on the badges.
Kev. |
#4
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Hi Kev - both the Cox and Nath photos show your spelling of Loodianah - so I don't think your badge is an earlier version but the badge gives a "nod" to their origins in 1846, when they were known as the Regiment of Ludhiana (or the Loodiana Regiment. Tim
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#5
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Maybe contact "Sikhs In The Army" via their website :
http://www.sikhsinthearmy.co.uk/army-badges/4545978821 Link is to displays of badges including 15th Loodianah Also found photo on another site of other spelling/badge. http://indiaww1.in/militaria.aspx
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted Last edited by mike_vee; 02-01-20 at 06:16 PM. |
#6
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Do I now understand that you read the first character on the scroll of your very fine picture if the beautiful badge as "I"? I read it as a clearly "L". BTW, the different spellings of the same pronunciation Loodhiana/Ludhiana. I have no idea when the designation and/or scrolls where adapted to the then usual spelling. But I have seen pictures of a badge with a scroll reading Ludhiana. The badge is a bit different, it is has a (smaller) Quoit with XV within and the scroll attached below and a KC above.
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Henk Interested in the lineage of the unit your badge represents? Try: Regimental lineages Last edited by Wmr-RHB; 03-01-20 at 11:18 AM. Reason: mistuped XIV for XV |
#7
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Chronology
1846 formed as Regiment of Ludhiana 1861 became 15th Bengal Native Infantry 1864 became 15th (Ludhiana) Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry 1885 became 15th Regiment of Bengal Native Infantry (Ludhiana Sikhs) 1901 became 15th (Ludhiana) Sikh Infantry 1903 became 15th Ludhiana Sikhs 1922 became 2nd Bn/11th Sikh Regiment 1947 allocated to India on Partition Corresponding items on Sikh website 1846-1864 15th Loodianah Regiment belt buckle/clasp. 1885-1922 15th Loodianah Sikhs Officers Pagri Badge (silver) Interestingly ww1cemetaries shows headstones featuring both spellings and different badges. https://www.ww1cemeteries.com/r-b-indian-regiments.html
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#8
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The second headstone is very strange, because the regiment never was "Royal".
In my opinion the word "Native" should be dropped from the 1885 designation in the list given above. In 1885 the word "Native" was dropped from all the designations as thought to be improprer This is a badge picture I have (as described earlier in this thread):
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Henk Interested in the lineage of the unit your badge represents? Try: Regimental lineages |
#9
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15Th Sikhs
[QUOTE=keflin2612;496108]Hi my fellow badgers,
Picked this pagri badge up the other week, I thought it going to be dated to around 1900 but when it arrived and I'd actually looked at it in the flesh, I think it seems to be older than I first thought. Could someone with a bit more knowledge than me tell me what sort of date it could actually be please. Cheers. HI Keflin, Sorry to say this, but the badge does not look right or correct , it is most likely a copy. The examples I have seen of this badge is that they were die struck and the fittings at the back are different. I took the liberty of sending these images to an expert who is not a member of this forum and he has also confirmed that it is not an authentic badge. Piffer |
#10
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Who's your "expert"
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#11
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Hi Piffer,
Yes the badge is a cast badge and the usual ones I've seen are die struck British made. As i told Kev, the reverse does not look great and it's been probably cast locally in India. But might be authentic in the sense that it might be used by other ranks as opposed to the silver ones worn by officers. I suppose you asked Ashok? I thought of sending him a pic but i bother him every other day so thought i would avoid Problem with Indian badges now is there are a lot of cast copies so becoming a minefield. And some copies are extremely well made. The obverse of this badge is pretty decent though, i would say. |
#12
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I'm sorry, but I have the badge in my possession I've looked at it, held it, looked at and pulled the very old and very loose pin and I think it's naivety and probable fact that it was made in India, makes me think it's right.
Kev. |
#13
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Quote:
That it's cast and most likely locally made from an original die struck badge for use by other ranks is a possibility. According to Ashok Nath this type of badge was worn by BO's and Native officers and also by NCO'S and members of the regimental band on special occasions. Other ranks wore XV with a quoit as it's shown in Sowars and Sepoys as nr 345. For field service they had a plain blackened quoit shown as nr 347. Since his book was published in 2014, Ashok also mentioned that he had noted, although its not mentioned in his book, after having seen contemporary photographs of 15th Sikhs that a plain silver quoit was worn by BO's on their SD caps. Let me see if I can can request for some images obverse/reverse of authentic badge worn by the 15th Sikhs. Piffer |
#14
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I'll be very interested to see what you find out Piffer, thanks for the help.
Kev |
#15
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