Tyneside Scottish

[rmarsden]

1st Bn.The Tyneside Scottish,The Black Watch (R.H.R.) 1939-44.
Small die variations: no1 has a long portcullis and thin flag.no2 a short
portcullis and a wider flag.no3 has the wider flag but due to heavy silver plating
I cant make out the portcullis.I wonder if they made new dies for the WW2
issue?

Ron

[Alan O]

Ron,

Without finding the Sealed patterns in the ACD records (and they have probably been sold off by now) it is difficult to tell what the makers were told to produce. It is quite possible that the same maker was used agin in 1937 but the chances of the order going to the same maker, them having kept the old dies and the dies being is a usable condition are less so.

The other thing to bear in mind that the original badges made in 1915 were not made for the WD, who I am led to believe did not take over providing the uniform bagdes for the TF and Pals until later on. This is why so many TF badges have sealed pattern dates of 1916 as this is when the 'official' sealed pattern was set down as a record. Earlier badges were made to order and this is why you find examples with large pins on the back rather than lugs. Again it is likely that the ones made in 1915 for the TF and the ones made later for the WD were made by different firms and hence slightly different dies.

The whole Tyneside Scottish piece is again complicated by the fact that they had 4 badge designs and no one refernce book agrees on which ones of the latter 3 were worn when. Unfortunately the Tyneside Scottish badges have been widely faked and the long portcullis ones are the design most seen being sold by the usual fraudsters on ebay.

Short answer - yes I think they probably did have new dies made for WW2.
Alan

[Malcolm Davey]

Spencer i do not like this badge for the following reasons
1, the lion looks comical,strange head and thin arms.
2, the portcullis is all the way down when is should be half way.
3, i would like to see this badge with a pin fixing like this one.
IMO it's a restrike.

Malc

[Spencer]

Thanks .
Have all of these badge got pin fixings ?

[Malcolm Davey]

Spencer
I have only seen this the 3rd pattern and the 4th pattern with this type of fixing, i do not know about the 1st and 2nd patterns.

Malc

[Alan O]

The first pattern was lugged but many were pinned as sweetheart badges. The second (both feet on tower as shown by Joachim) are found with pins as well. WW2 variants were supplied by the WD and lugged.

Alan

[Malcolm Davey]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

The first pattern was lugged but many were pinned as sweetheart badges. The second (both feet on tower as shown by Joachim) are found with pins as well. WW2 variants were supplied by the WD and lugged.

Alan

Alan spot on it is the 2nd pattern shown by me, mis-read Bloomers.

Malc

[alan g]

thought i would post my tyneside scottish hallmarked badges one marked 1914 the other1915

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by alan g

thought i would post my tyneside scottish hallmarked badges one marked 1914 the other1915

Alan,

I take it the one on the left is the 1914 mark?

Alan

[alan g]

Yes alan it is ,its by WDand S birmingham, the other is JRG and S birmingham regards alan

[Alan O]

This is the GWF thread on it with a picture of what I consider a good first pattern badge.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...scottish+badge

The GWF members date the demi-lion to 1916.

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/fo...scottish+badge

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

I have a Tyneside Scottish which has the lion inside the tower, the tower halfway up the cross with loops. This is the second pattern.
Also I have a badge similar to Spencers which is a bad strike with loops which look OK, the portcullis is halfway down, but the strike is very bad. I bought it some years ago from Hugh King.

[Scots Grey]

Not Sure About this one would appreciate your opinion on this one. Regards Dave

the badge is a good one nice repair

peter

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Scots Grey

Hello David i have looked at the thread Spencer started and i am really non the wiser the badge i have up i picked up for coppers with no lugs and i had it repaired so i am again not sure if its genuine or not {Damed frustrating } i am starting to feel rather disappointed i thought i knew a little about badges but alas it seems i was wrong. best wishes Dave

Dave, There you go. Peter has put you right. If you still want to send me the pics, feel free.
Have just found a pic of my (suspect) and the lugs on this are way out of skew - as mine was not repaired (plus other aspects) the lug placement and fixing was part of the poor quality faking process.
Good luck with the others, David