H.M.T. G 8? Torpedoed March,1917

[dumdum]

Hi all

I posted about this some time back but am wondering if "fresh eyes" can add anything.

Not much of a mystery as to what it is ( a standard silver watch fob), but I'd love to know more about the H.M.T. G 8.

We have a date (March, 1917) but where did the loss occur? This looks to be something that was important to the owner (initials "J.H.")

[mike_vee]

Have found a list which shows 12 HMT vessels that sank during March 1917.

Unfortunately none are listed as being torpedoed , 7 were reported as hitting mines , 1 was shelled and sunk , 3 were simply listed as lost which leaves HMT Caledonia which was was sunk in the North Sea off Newton-by-the-Sea, Northumberland by SM UC-50 ( Imperial German Navy).

NB. There were other ships with the name Caledonia in 1916/17.

Is it possible that G.8 is actually G.B and is simply to indicate that it was a British Transport ship as opposed to H.M.A.T or HMNZT.


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[dumdum]

Hi Mike

Many, many thanks again! I'm fairly sure that it is a "G 8" but I'll get a glass onto it as this photo was taken some time back.

It was common practice to give the transports letters and numbers so were the numbers unique to a ship or were they reallocated for each voyage? Any Merc Marine people know?

I came across another HMNZT badge the other day. Did you ever get yourself sorted for one?

[High Wood]

The only G.8. that I can find that was lost appears to have been a submarine.

https://www.world-war.co.uk/warloss_275brit.php

[mike_vee]

I downloaded and enhanced the photo and am sure it is a B.

Regarding the numbers , when I looked at the HMNZT site it appeared that a number was given for each voyage dependant on departure date , for example the Maunganui is listed under 12 different numbers.

"Each return voyage was one charter, of which there were essentially 111, the troopship number being the number of the charter".

I'm still not sure about the authenticity of the 2 different HMNZT badges (9 or 10 pearls) so don't really want to get one , or both , until the enigma is resolved.

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[dumdum]

Hi Mike and others who have contributed to this post,

Here is a slightly better photo (the last one was a scan done on our old, now defunct scanner) of the silver fob.

Let me know your thoughts!

[SemperFi]

Hi DumDum,

The evidence is overwhelming that your fob is for the HMT Caledonia that was torpedoed on 17.03.17 by the German U-Boat SM UC-50.

You might be able to find out who "JH" was by searching Ancestry or trawling through NA records. In all cases, searching records by HMT Caledonia may be the easiest way to figure out who JH was--he could have been RN or a Merchant Seaman.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ails/r/C975064
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/...als-and-awards

Here’s a reference for the abbreviation HMT:

HMT = His Majesty’s Trawler
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyBritishBVLS2.htm

Here’s a reference for the HMT Caledonia’s sinking extracted from "British Vessels Lost at Sea, 1914-1918", published by HMSO, 1919:

CALEDONIA, trawler, lost March 17, 1917, British Isles
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1LossesBrRNA-L.htm

Here is a reference for the HMT Caledonia being torpedoed:

CALEDONIA, hired trawler. Built 1906, 161grt, Granton-reg GN.34. In service 3.17-3.17 as special service vessel. Sunk 17.3.17 by U-boat off Newton, Northumberland on passage to fit out.
http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Navy...s-Dittmar1.htm

Here’s a supporting cross reference that the HMT Caledonia was torpedoed:

Maritime Archaeology Sea Trust’s database of Royal Navy losses on page 105 (or you can do a name search).

“sunk by submarine off Newton, Northumberland, UK”
https://thisismast.org//assets/downl...2017-10-29.pdf

No other HMT class vessels are listed as being torpedoed in March 1917, in the material at the below link; however, the 1917 – 1918 section is incomplete.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1Navy...Attacked.htm#2

Here’s support that the HMT Caledonia sunk in 1917 is not, and cannot be, either of the troop transports HMT Caledonia or SS Caledonia:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...nia-troopship/

Here’s some info. about SM UC-50 that sank the Caledonia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM_UC-50
https://uboat.net/wwi/boats/?boat=UC+50

Kind regards,
Jay

[mike_vee]

Hi Jay , thanks for the excellent (and comprehensive) information .


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[dumdum]

Hi all

I don't think that I can really express how grateful I am to all who have contributed to this thread so let me try....

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

The sheer willingness to share information constantly reminds me that it was a good decision of mine to join up. I hope that I can in some way return the generousity of people such as Mike and many others who are constantly encouraging my interest.

Cheers to all!

[SemperFi]

Cheers Mike and DumDum! �� Glad I could lend a hand with unraveling this puzzle. It’ll be fantastic if JH’s identity is discovered!

Stay safe and well!
Jay

[dumdum]

Well, it's quite sincere.

Any clues as to how to access the rolls for HMT Caledonia? I did follow your links (very useful!) but got a bit lost in the labyrinth that is TNA!

[High Wood]

There does not seem to have been any fatal casualties from the sinking of H.M.T Caledonia. The CWGC website lists 104 Royal Naval, Merchant Naval casualties for the 17th March 1917, but none were from the Caledonia.

I was hoping that if we had at least one name we could find a newspaper report as a starting point.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by SemperFi

It’ll be fantastic if JH’s identity is discovered!

He could be from my hometown Edinburgh !

The Caledonia was built in Aberdeen in 1906 but was first registered on 18.09.1906 at Granton , Edinburgh.

Granton Harbour is about 2miles from where I was brought up and as a kid I regularly fished off the end of the east harbour breakwater.

"The harbour was requisitioned by the Royal Navy during both world wars."

I also found a site that has a list (incomplete) of crews who manned the trawlers. Unfortunately it doesn't mention which specific trawler they worked on but does show that 10 people with the initials J.H worked/sailed from Granton Harbour.

I would assume that when trawlers were "taken into service" they would initially be manned by the civilian crew and one point I had missed :

"In service 3.17-3.17 as special service vessel. Sunk 17.3.17 by U-boat off Newton, Northumberland on passage to fit out."

Was it torpedoed and sunk on it's first official 'voyage' after being taken into service on it's way to be "fitted out" as a Naval vessel ?

Newton-by-the-Sea, Northumberland is only about 40 miles down the coast from Granton Harbour , Edinburgh.

NB. Photo of Granton Harbour from :
http://www.grantontrawlers.com/granton%20harbour.html


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[mike_vee]

Have managed to find crew list for the Caledonia (ship's official number was 122983) but only for 1915. There was probably not a list for 1917 as the register for it was closed that year.

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/archiv...lFacetLetter=C


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[dumdum]

Gents,

A big "thank you" for all your efforts!

Cheers to the true spirit of The Forum!