QARNNS cap badge

[tonyboyle]

Can anyone tell me what style(s) of cap badge were worn on hats by members of the Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service during WW2. I have seen officers badges similar to WRNS officers but with a red wreath rather than blue. I have also seen smaller badges more square surmounted by a Kings Crown, similar to the ones worn in the 50’s/60’s
Of particular interest is the badge worn on the hat of tropical uniform.

[Milmed]

The badge you show is c.WWII and worn with tropical dress. The same badge is also available with a black background and worn on the black cap, but has also been seen worn on the white tropical cap. I suppose it was a matter of what was available.

The officers badge with red wreath is post war and adopted when the Navy Nursing Service employed other ranks nursing staff. The other ranks went on to use the cap badge previously worn by officers (i.e. without red wreath)

[Guzzman]

The image shown is that of the style of badge worn by QARNNS in WWII. Only officers were employed at that stage. I must admit that I've never seen one with a white background before though - I've only seen the versions with a black background worn on tropical rig before. The badges with red laurel leaves came into use in 1953. That is why you never see a King's Crown example - except for the fakes you see on ebay. At that stage there were still only officer QARNNS. Naval Nurse 'ratings' didn't appear until the early-1960s. They adopted the style of cap badge worn by officers until 1953. In the 1990s QARNNS adopted Royal Navy cap badges for the officers and the nurses were dressed as seamen with a cap and cap tally with the name of the ship or estblishment in which they were serving.

Pete

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

The image shown is that of the style of badge worn by QARNNS in WWII. Only officers were employed at that stage. I must admit that I've never seen one with a white background before though - I've only seen the versions with a black background worn on tropical rig before. The badges with red laurel leaves came into use in 1953. That is why you never see a King's Crown example - except for the fakes you see on ebay. At that stage there were still only officer QARNNS. Naval Nurse 'ratings' didn't appear until the early-1960s. They adopted the style of cap badge worn by officers until 1953. In the 1990s QARNNS adopted Royal Navy cap badges for the officers and the nurses were dressed as seamen with a cap and cap tally with the name of the ship or estblishment in which they were serving.

Pete

That's absolutely right! But having been married to a naval nurse throughout the 1990's I can add a bit that may be of interest to people? Rating nurses originally (for No 1 and 2 dress) wore the same as Wren ratings but with a cylindrical cap similar to the old white topped policewomen's cap, only taller, with a blue and red band and the QARNNS ratings cap badge, later the cap was replaced with a cap identical to the old policewomen's one. At some point ratings being trained at HMS Raleigh started wearing the round Wrens cap with the blue and red ribbon and QARNNS cap badge in the centre (this was also worn by the new Medical Assistant QARNNS or MA(Q) ) later still, nurses started to wear a tricorn hat with the QARNNS rating badge on the red and blue ribbon, which was later still replaced by the standard black band. At some point, the QARNNS rating badge was replaced by the red cap badge worn by Artificers and the buttons on the tunic became gold metal not black plastic. eventually, when the WRNS ceased to exist, the standard Petty Officers badge was adopted with gold badges, Then (and after I divorced her!), nurses of the rank of Leading Naval Nurse and under, started wearing ratings square rig, with as stated the standard (now unisex) ratings cap with establishment cap tally.

[Phil2M]

Has the black layer of the felt been moth eaten away?

[Milmed]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

Has the black layer of the felt been moth eaten away?

No, there was a white felt badge, but it is not common. If you look carefully at the pic, you can still see quite a lot of the white felt.

[Guzzman]

Very interesting to read Sailorbear's comments! Here are images of some of the headgear worn by naval nurses (ratings) that he mentioned.

The first images shows some QARNNS student nurses. They appear to be wearing the rather floppy beret-style headgear which was worn by nurse ratings when they were first established in the early 1960s. Judging by their atrocious marching I would guess that these are very new students!

The second image shows the conical 'flowerpot'- style hat introduced to replace the beret. It was not popular and was itself soon replaced. I've got one in my collection and it really is horrible!

The third and fourth images show the 'policewomens' style hat which replaced the 'flowerpot'. This was the last hat used by QARNNS nurses before they adopted square rig.

I seem to recall that the tricorne hat was worn by the equivalent of PO, CPO and WO nurses.

I always thought that QARRNS nurses looked a lot smarter in their uniforms than WRNS. I am prepared to accept abuse for this outrageous comment!

Pete

[sailorbear]

To add slightly more and hopefully clarify!

When the QARNNS replaced the Police women type hat, they went into the Wren ratings round cap as in the first picture (which is my ex wife's cap), and this was worn by Student Naval Nurses (SNN), Naval Nurses (NN) and Leading Naval Nurses (LNN). PO's, CPO's and WO's wore the tricorn with the respective red laurel leaves and crossed A's under the anchor. In 1993/4? the uniform was changed and SNN, NN, and LNN's started wearing gold gilt buttons and a tricorn cap with the QARNNS ratings badge, as pictured (this from a 1994 Navy Days brochure). in late 1994 (I think) the QARNNS badges were abandoned and rates below PO started wearing the red Artificers cap badge on the tricorn, PO's and above started wearing the standard gold RN cap badge for their rate, and on uniforms, gold rate badges replaced red, on No 1 uniform and blue on white replaced red on white on ward dress. At some point (and I don't actually know when) SNN, NN and LNN went into square rig, which personally I think was a terrible idea!

[Guzzman]

Hi Sailorbear

Some of what you said has come back to me now. It's sad how the memory starts to go as you get older. And to be honest, back in the day the last thing I tended to look at when I met a naval nurse was what type of hat they were wearing!

And I totally agree that they should never have been put into square rig. Such a shame!

Pete

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi Sailorbear

Some of what you said has come back to me now. It's sad how the memory starts to go as you get older. And to be honest, back in the day the last thing I tended to look at when I met a naval nurse was what type of hat they were wearing!

And I totally agree that they should never have been put into square rig. Such a shame!

Pete

It sure is Pete, and even more horrifying, is they got rid of that lovely nurses uniform and put them into civvy nursing dress of trousers and white short sleeve top, that looks like the uniform worn by the shop assistants in boots the chemists!

Tony

[Home Guard]

What an excellent thread!!! As one who collects nursing badges this is is some awesome information. Thank you all!!!!

Terry

[tonyboyle]

Thank you some very useful information there. Can I ask are you sure the type of badge with the red wreath only came in in 1953? I have references to changes to the QARNNS in 1944 and 1953. I have a red wreathed Kings Crown badge which is definitely not repro so although I could be wrong I would say these badges did exist pre 53 and the introduction of the Queens crown.

[Guzzman]

Posted in error!

[Guzzman]

Morning Tony

No, the red-wreathed QARNNS officers cap badge was not introduced until 1953. Apparently this was partly because of the small number of regular Nursing Sisters serving in the QARNNS. For example in 1950 there were 106 and in 1951 there were 117. The QARNNS was always the smallest of the three nursing services.

It was simply felt that, in a time of post-war austerity, it wasn't economical to redesign the QARNNS cap badge for so few nursing officers. However, the accession of HM Queen Elizabeth II in 1952 meant that the badges had to be redesigned anyway to incorporate the Queen's Crown. And, at the same time, there had also been a significant increase in the number of Nursing Sisters employed (222 in 1952) because of the Korean War - which made the introduction of the new badge more justifiable. The redesigned badge also brought Nursing Sisters more into line with other officers in the naval service and made them more readily identifiable as officers.

I know that some alterations to QARNNS uniforms were made in 1944 but these did not affect the cap badge being worn at the time. And if you have documentation that refers to the new cap badge from 1953 then that fits with what I have said.

If you have any documentation that proves that the red-wreathed cap badge was introduced prior to 1953 then I would love to see it. I'm always happy to be proved wrong! And, if it did exist, why are there no photos of it being worn? Does anyone have one?

And please post some images of your King's Crown badge (front and back). I would really like to see it.

Pete

[tonyboyle]

42D4215D-CA5A-494E-880A-152064B43DD0.jpgThanks again Pete, I have no documentation or photographs which shows QARNNS cap badges. I have a few photographs of them in service dress but these don’t unfortunately show the cap badges. As I said I do have a Kings crown Badge with a red wreath but as you say it may be reproduction although the quality far exceeds anything I have seen for sale on eBay etc. maybe they made better repros back then! I have attached a couple of pictures of it for you. Do you have any photographs of the QARNNS sisters wearing the smaller kings crown badges?