British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Other Commonwealth Military Insignia > Indian Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16-11-22, 06:46 PM
Kohima Kohima is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: york
Posts: 6
Default Indian Army Button

Hi
i have come into possession of a brass button from the 15 Loodianah Sikhs but can find no trace of it. I believe it to be from Victorian days as it previously belonged to the grandfather of a WW2 veteran

Can anyone help

Thanksbutton 2.jpg

button 1.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16-11-22, 07:09 PM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 992
Default

Link to an example at The National Army Museum.

https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail....13-10-20-37-37

Regards Simon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 19-11-22, 08:10 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

As this thread started with an inquiry about an Indian button, I would like to show a couple more that I cannot find any reference to. Both were made by Ramsey & Co of Calcutta and presumably for and Indian unit, but which?
Thanks to Simon’s lead link to the N.A.M., I had a good search through there but got nowhere. The three gun button I think would be an Artillery unit (although the Indian Military Academy has a similar button) and the other, a single gun (which may be a multi barrel machine gun or an even older type of Gun with iron staves wrapped around the barrel). The three trees with a sun-burst above has me beat! Finally, the Nepaul artillery also has me beat. I went to the Nepalese Army site but apart from their showing the button (as per mine) I find no other information reference badges etc. Please, can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg E9A9FB67-8FBF-4015-9F65-432F53E4C42F.jpg (54.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 4543333C-005D-4645-97AB-0A9E1269F8AD.jpg (49.7 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg DBCC69FA-6559-476E-8121-5C30F0C61377.jpg (34.8 KB, 25 views)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19-11-22, 11:20 PM
Buttonman Buttonman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Mid-Wales, UK.
Posts: 369
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artynut View Post
As this thread started with an inquiry about an Indian button, I would like to show a couple more that I cannot find any reference to. Both were made by Ramsey & Co of Calcutta and presumably for and Indian unit, but which?
Thanks to Simon’s lead link to the N.A.M., I had a good search through there but got nowhere. The three gun button I think would be an Artillery unit (although the Indian Military Academy has a similar button) and the other, a single gun (which may be a multi barrel machine gun or an even older type of Gun with iron staves wrapped around the barrel). The three trees with a sun-burst above has me beat! Finally, the Nepaul artillery also has me beat. I went to the Nepalese Army site but apart from their showing the button (as per mine) I find no other information reference badges etc. Please, can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
I think they are Buddhist prayer wheels rather than trees on the first two buttons. I have seen a line drawing of a button similar to the third one [but without the gun] which was identified as the Escort to the British Resident in Nepal [not Gurkhas of the Indian or Nepalese armies].
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 20-11-22, 12:47 PM
btns's Avatar
btns btns is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,971
Default

Could the first two buttons be from Siam / Thailand?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 20-11-22, 11:57 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

Thanks btns for a new lead to follow!. Unfortunately, as happens in many cases, trying to track down information on a small country’s military history, specially the badges and devices on their uniforms can prove most exasperating. I did find quite a lot of information on the struggles both military and political, endured by the Siamese/Thais in their not too distant past.
With “Prayer Wheels” being mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I even tried to track my buttons to Tibet, unsuccessfully!
So what is next? Has anybody had reactions with writing to the “National Army Museum”? I have tried museums before years ago but sometimes did not even get the courtesy of a reply. I welcome any help. Best regards, D.J.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 21-11-22, 08:14 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 5,014
Default

Cambodian connection

.
Attached Images
File Type: png Cambodia.png (12.9 KB, 6 views)
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 21-11-22, 02:26 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

Mike, I think you’re onto something there! Prayer wheels and sun-rays definitely feature there. Will try that route later and probably NOT be including the buttons in my “Commonwealth” collection. Best regards, D.J.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 22-11-22, 04:31 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

Latest update! I’ve searched Tibet, Thailand, Cambodia and now I’ve sent photo’s of front and rear of the buttons to the “Largest” museum in KHOLCUTTA, claims to be the largest museum covering Scientific, Cultural and engineering. I’m hoping they can track down “Ramsey & Co.” Or whom the buttons were issued to.
If anything comes back, I will advise you all! Thank you for the previous suggestions. Regards, D.J.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 27-11-22, 04:20 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

Five days later and another update. Further research, (read “lots of scrolling to a dead end”) plus a chance PM from a dealer is pointing me to Colonial BURMa. Sadly, not enough info on any site in Myanmar or former Burma sites.
Any collectors of Indian, Burmese or Asian badges or buttons out there to give me another lead? regards, David J.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28-11-22, 09:56 AM
High Wood's Avatar
High Wood High Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,578
Default

I am not convinced that there is a Burmese connection to this button. My best guess would be that it is from Siam/Thailand.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28-11-22, 05:07 PM
Khyber Khyber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 668
Default

Nothing Burmese about it. Most likely Thailand/Cambodia
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 28-11-22, 07:14 PM
High Wood's Avatar
High Wood High Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,578
Default

These are Thai and both have the same Christmas tree/parasol device.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...9&d=1559309231

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...4&d=1559315837
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28-11-22, 08:33 PM
Artynut Artynut is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 882
Default

Thank you High Wood for your input and links. So now it looks as if the pendulum has swung back to Siam/ Thailand especially as Siam was under British influence at about the time Ramsey & Co. Produced that three gun button. I’m at a loss as to how to research the button further. Now I guess I should make an attempt to try for a contact at The National Army Museum in the U.K. Thanks to all who tried to help. Best regards, David J.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 29-11-22, 04:55 AM
Milmed's Avatar
Milmed Milmed is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1,717
Default

I think a large clue we may be overlooking is the button with the multi barrel gun. I did a comparison on google with various guns and the gun on the button looks very much like a Gatling gun.

Then it was just a matter of searching the history of the Gatling gun and it looks like Wikipedia may have the answers.

'By 1880 Siam had imported an unknown number of Gatling's. By 1885 the kingdom had a Gatling Gun regiment of 600 men; those weapons were possibly used in the Haw Wars. They were also seen among Prince Bigit's escort in 1886'

ref. Heath, Ian (2003) [1998]. Armies of the Nineteenth Century: Burma and Indo-China. Foundry Books. p. 155. ISBN 978-1-90154-306-3.

So it appears Siam (Thailand) may be the source of these buttons

Link to image showing Siamese troops with Gatling gun during Haw wars: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A...ars_(1875).jpg

Last edited by Milmed; 29-11-22 at 05:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:49 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.