British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Formation Signs and Patches

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30-10-10, 02:13 PM
MH331 MH331 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 2,181
Default WW1 Bombers Badges

A selection of WW1 Bombers qualification Badges.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bombers.jpg (55.0 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg bombers1.jpg (51.6 KB, 121 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-11-10, 10:01 PM
paj1 paj1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 760
Default

Hi great badges wonderful condition
cheers paj1
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-11-10, 03:13 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,456
Default

I know you know they were not qualification badges .... they were "appointment" badges.

Lovely examples: are any "without wood ball insert" and therefore flat, please?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-11-10, 09:51 PM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Smile Original WW1 Bombers badge

Hi there,

Nice selection indeed.

I have just added as my profile picture my Grandfathers, Sgt Charles Moss, 18th Lord Durham Pals (Service) Battalion, DLI bombing arm badge. I picked it up from my cousin who has some other bits and bobs of my Grandfathers and thought this was a lovely badge to honour his memory with.

I post a couple of photos one of a bombing instructors course from 1918 from Otley - just look at the array of cap badges. I shall try and indentify all of these and post seperately. My Grandad's photo appears in John Sheen's excellent Durham Pals book and shows him wearing the arm badge in 1916 after being wounded on the Somme.

Yours in badges, Dean.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1090112.jpg (60.1 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0082.jpg (67.0 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0081.jpg (43.3 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0036.jpg (25.3 KB, 54 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-10, 03:47 AM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Smile Bombing Instruction Course Badges 1918

Postcard type group photograph

Labelled by my Grandfather, Sergeant Charles Herbert Moss, C Company, Lord Durham Pals (Service) Battalion, Durham Light infantry as ”Bombing Instruction Course at Otley” in pencil and then in his hand writing again in pen “At Officers & NCO’s Bombing Refresher Course 1918”.
My Grandfather was first pictured wearing his bombing arm badge in 1916 and was a Lewis Gun Sergeant both at Ypres in 1915 and on the Somme in 1916. C Company of the Durham Pals was in reserve on the 1st July 1916 for the disastrous and tragic attack on the village of Serre by the Leeds, Bradford and Durham Pals of 93 Brigade, 31st Division hence he was probably spared from being mown down like the majority of A, B and D companies Durham Pals and the other Pals battalions of that and many other fine Divisions.
Otley as many of you will know is in rural West Yorkshire and the treed scene is like much of Otley today and a couple of farm type building can be made out on the right of the photo.
This photo is taken during a break from the course and many of the soldiers are smoking, are without waist belts and appear to be in a jocular mood with caps at jointy angles or pushed back. There are two patterns of waist belt clasps shown, a standard inter-locking clasp type and one an intertwined S-type. The men are a mixture of ages but the majority as you would expect for Officers and NCO’s are older soldiers, my Grandfather would have been 38 years old in 1918. Many are wearing at least one wound stripe and one three! The Sergeant with three has seen a lot of service with an upturned service chevron denoting 15 years service. The officers smoking pipes are very characteristic of Great War officers.
My Grandfather had been wounded twice by 1918, once at Ypres in 1915 and once on the Somme in 1916 and both times returned to fight after being invalided back to military hospital in England. The British army was in need of the experience of its NCO’s just to keep soldiers alive.
I note the bombing instructors white arm bands with raised bombing badge on them. I wonder if these are the same as those worn on the upper left arm. I had thought that maybe instructors would have been drawn from a service corps like the Army Ordnance Corps perhaps given that there was a School of Musketry that I believe taught Officers and NCO’s the art of teaching a soldier to accurately fire his rifle. However, the Officer and NCO with Bombing Instructors arm bands and badges are regular regimental soldiers.
Several of the soldiers are wearing a gallantry decoration bar which is clearly the striped medal ribbon of the Military Medal. The Military Medal was the most common of the gallantry decorations of the Great War. l have been unable to identify several medal bars on the NCO’s and they are likely to again be the Military Medal but a Distinguished Conduct as the scarcer issued gallantry medal cannot be ruled out. One of the Officers is also decorated and again it is hard to determine the actual decoration, however, again the Military Cross is most likely. The majority of the soldiers would be entitled to “just a trio” as my late Father used to describe his Father Great War medals but later entry pairs would also be expected.
The appearance of the two Doughboy American NCO’s in the photograph is consistent with 1918 and the numbers of such troops coming into action on the Western front. These however may be Kiwis given that they have pagris wound around their hats. This will be corrected no doubt.
A high proportion of the regiments represented are Fusilier Regiments but I think maybe that is co-incidental for a Bombing Refresher course.

The regiments I have identified are as follows and I look forward to assistance with badge identification from learned members:

Top Row Standing – all from Left to Right
South Staffordshire Regiment – Sergeant - bombers arm badge top left arm
Gloucestershire Regiment - NCO
New Zealander – Corporal - triangular unit flash left shoulder, blackened cap and collar badges
South Staffordshire Regiment – Corporal
New Zealender – NCO - blackened cap and collar badges,
West Yorkshire Regiment (although facing away I believe I can make out rear of “rocking horse”) – Sergeant
Unidentified Fusiliers Regiment - badge no scroll (Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Fusiliers, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Royal Munster Fusiliers?)– Sergeant - Military Medal - cannot see shoulder titles
York and Lancaster Regiment - Corporal - bombers arm badge
King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry Regiment – Sergeant - Military Medal bar, bombers arm badge, left arm, three wound stripes below Marksman crossed rifles lower left sleeve

Second Top Row Standing
Wiltshire Regiment – Sergeant - bombers arm badge
Border Regiment – Corporal - Military Medal, single wound stripe
Unknown Fusiliers Regiment - badge no scroll (Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Fusiliers, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Royal Munster Fusiliers?) – Sergeant - fusilier grenade shoulder title
Manchester Regiment – Corporal
Unknown Fusiliers Regiment - badge no scroll (Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Fusiliers, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Royal Munster Fusiliers?) – Corporal - fusilier grenade shoulder title
Manchester Regiment – Sergeant - single upturned chevron upper left arm
Durham Light Infantry – Sergeant Charles Herbert Moss - C Company, 18th (Service) Lord Durham Pals Battalion.
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - NCO
West Yorkshire Regiment – Sergeant - bombers arm badge
Manchester Regiment – Corporal - unknown Medal bar – Military Medal or Distinguished Conduct Medal, single upturned service chevron upper left arm, Marksman crossed rifles badge, three wound stripes, three rank chevrons lower left sleeve

3rd Top Row Seated
Unidentified Regiment - OSD round cap badge - Officer – distinctive OSD collars but cannot identify
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - Officer – 2 wound stripes, OSD grenade collar badges no scroll so not Lancashire Fusiliers
York and Lancaster Regiment (note identification aided by collar badges) - Second Lieutenant – different style cap to the others, single pip rank badge on officers sleeve epaulette, distinctive “cat and cabbage” OSD collar badges
Lancashire Fusiliers - Lieutenant – two pip rank sleeve badges, Lancashire Fusiliers scrolled collar badges
Duke of Wellington’s (DoW) Regiment - Lieutenant – distinctive OSD DoW elephant collar badges, pale coloured tie, Bombing Instructors white arm band with likely bombing instructors badge left arm, Sam Brown belt, Officers boots, two pip rank sleeve badges
King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry Regiment – Sergeant - Bombing Instructors white arm band with raised profile bombing instructors badge left arm clearly visible
West Yorkshire Regiment – Lieutenant – OSED badges, two pip rank sleeve badges
East Lancashire Regiment – Officer - no rank badges but OSD cap and collar badges
Royal Dublin Fusiliers – Corporal - bombers arm badge

Bottom Row Sat Crossed Legged
Unidentified Fusiliers Regiment - badge no scroll (Northumberland Fusiliers, Royal Fusiliers, Royal Welsh Fusiliers, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers, Royal Munster Fusiliers?) - Sergeant
East Yorkshire Regiment – Corporal – Marksman crossed rifles sleeve badge, single wound stripe
Leicestershire Regiment – Officer - smoking pipe, wearing shoes
Sherwood Foresters (?) - Major (?) – Unidentified Medal bar (Military Cross?), smoking pipe, wearing puttees
West Yorkshire Regiment – Corporal - bombers arm badge
Sherwood Foresters (?) – Corporal - bombers arm badge

Cheers Dean

Last edited by mooke07; 10-11-10 at 06:31 PM. Reason: errors in identification
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-10, 10:55 AM
grumpy grumpy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,456
Default

please may we see the photo: I can do analysis with a good enough scan.

Some obvious questions: how can you identify a lance-sergeant in SD?
And the sergeant "with an upturned chevron 15 years service"? Not British, for sure. First, sergeants not allowed good conduct chevron
[none above LCpl]
and secondly one chevron for 2 years service.
Might this be an overseas service chevron, first issued Feb 1918?

Last edited by grumpy; 10-11-10 at 10:58 AM. Reason: omission
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-11-10, 12:34 PM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Default

Thanks I will post a better scan when back in Australia, wrote this flying to Boston. I guessed on the inverted chevron and so you are probably correct that will be for overseas service. Was well out of my depth here! Would have meant Officer for OSD, many thanks for commenting, cheers Dean.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-11-10, 01:40 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 5,821
Default

"The appearance of the two Doughboy American NCO’s in the photograph is consistent with 1918 and the numbers of such troops coming into action on the Western front."

Comment:
I think your "Doughboys" are "Kiwis" from New Zealand? They seem to be wearing pagris around their hats? Also the man on the left has Corporals stripes/chevrons worn in the British style point downwards.
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-11-10, 02:39 PM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Default

Goodness me I feel ashamed of myself living in Australia to have missed these chaps as Kiwis, I didn't think of them at all! Didn't know about the pagris - pleased I posted to learn more as uniform ID certainaly not my strong suit. I think I have all the ranks wrong as well!

Many thanks, Dean.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-11-10, 05:48 PM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Default

Hi Grumpy,

The photograph was with the earlier post proceeding my long one on the badges identified within it so if you scroll up you will see the image, I will however put in a sharper scanned image when back in Australia. Cheers Dean.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-03-11, 04:53 PM
Blackdog Blackdog is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Leeds
Posts: 1
Default

Strictly speaking 'Otley' is erroneous as it is an entirely different township, though, like this very nice example, it is often recorded on postcards as such. Farnley Camp is perhaps better as it is in the grounds of Farnley Hall.

Other known titles for this site - 'Farnley Park', 'Otley Park/Camp', 'Northern Command Gas and Grenade School' or even 'Northern Command Field Engineering, Gas and Grenade School'.

In other postcards from this camp, RFC and RAF personnel may be recognised.
Many postcards and group photographs of this camp survive, both in private and museum collections.

New Zealand men are clear in many other examples besides the one posted here. American soldiers are not yet known from this site.

n.b. beware confusing this Farnley Hall (LS21) with Farnley Hall in Leeds (LS12).
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-11, 07:25 AM
mooke07's Avatar
mooke07 mooke07 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 2,630
Default

Many thanks for your detailed knowledge here, very helpful and your first post, excellent, cheers Dean.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13-02-20, 11:47 AM
smclaren smclaren is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
Default WW1 Bombers Badges

Howdy all ....

Breathing some life into this VERY old thread.

Here is a photo (including bombing badges) of the bombers of the New Zealand 1st Auckland Infantry Battalion, who came out unscathed from the Battle of the Somme in September 1916.

The photo was taken on Thursday the 28th of December in Estares France, after the men had returned from the Somme and were back operating around Armentieres.

It was sent home by my Grandfather, George McLaren (12/2419) who was a then Corporal in the 3rd (Auckland) Company (he finished the war as a commissioned offer).

The photo (which I've clearly had colourised) shows 11 men of the 1st Auckland Battalion ... made up of 5 x 3rd (Auckland) Company, 4 x 6th (Hauraki) Company, 1 x 15th (North Auckland) Company, 1 x 16th (Waikato) Company.

I can identify only 4 of them (3 x Auckland and 1x Waikato).

Back Row L-R
Unknown - 6th Hauraki,
Unknown - 15th North Auckland,
Unknown - 3rd Auckland,
Cpl George McLaren (12/2419) - 3rd Auckland and my Grandfather.
Centre Row L-R
Pte George Tuaine (12/1812) - 3rd Auckland
Unknown - 6th Hauraki
Sgt Henry Rowe (12/2559) - 3rd Auckland
Unknown - 6th Hauraki
Front Row L-R
Unknown - 3rd Auckland
Lt Robert Tilsley - 16th Waikato
Unknown - 6th Hauraki

As background of their (the Auckland Bombers) action on the Somme in regard to the first advance ... here is what OE Burton provided in the Offical History ...

" 1/Auckland, on the morning of the 15th September, moved from Fricourt Wood to Mametz Wood, where they beguiled the time by raiding the Guards' canteen. Next day they marched to the battlefield and took over from a battalion of the Rifle Brigade. Orders were issued for an attack on Goose Alley, but after the preparations had been made these orders were cancelled, and the Battalion dug the left defensive flank for the New Zealand Division. At 6 p.m. the following evening a party of bombers successfully bombed up a section of the Flers Trench."

From my Grandfathers diary ... "18/9/16 Monday - Had a terrible night. Wet and both sides bombardment. Tommies took the two trenches on our left and us bombers had to run across a 30 yards open stretch swept with machine guns. Colin got killed & Ted & Bill wounded. At present sitting in Huns dugout trying to sleep, wet & mud up to neck. 7pm, Frank & I buried poor old Colin. We put a cross over the spot as best we could & took his pay book & etc. Will send it to his people first chance."

Hope this has been of interest to you ?

All the best.

Steve
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bombers arm badge, durham pals

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:01 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.