RAF 'Pathfinder'

[Denis]

This is an invite for anyone owning a genuine example of the coveted Pathfinder Badge to also post images, front and reverse, here.

It seems that many people have been sold Sleeve or Cap Eagles fitted with screw posts, tabs or lugs with a clevis pin and told they were the real deal. From discussions with former Pathfinder aircrew, the original badge was made with a long pin brazed onto the reverse. The badge could only be worn while not on operations, a stipulation that ensured that the badge was required to be fixed by a pin and not lugs, posts or tabs, as these would leave marks in the battledress blouse pocket flap and could potentially indicate to the enemy, if captured, of the squadrons elite status as target markers.

[Bantam]

Hi Dennis,
Although RAF Badges is not really my field of collecting I have one or two items including what I believed to be a Pathfinders Badge.It was purchased from Steven Bosley before he began his auction bussiness so it was from a reputable dealer.
The badge as the two threaded posts to the back but lacks the retaining screws.In his book "Military Pilot & Aircrew Badges of the World (1870-Present) Vol 1 Don Chalif stipulates that the back of the badge was two post screws.I would regard the book as one of the better ones I have seen on Airforce Insignia.
Regards
Bantam

[Jibba Jabba]

Sadly as an item worn by officers it was also a private purchase meaning it had many different manufacturers.

The way to distinguish the different between Pathfinder and cap with screw post is the length of the screw post. If the screw post is over 10 mm in length it is clearly not going to be worn on a jacket! I`m sure the fakers out there had a remedy for this!

The one I have has short length D lugs attachments. I bought in a grouping with a log book to a Flight Engineer. It has a backing plate on it.

[Bantam]

Hi Jibba Jabba,
Checked length of screw posts 8mm with rounded end.Maker Firmin London.
I would also like to point out that another badge worn on the battledress blouse in a similar position again with the same screw fitting was The Operational Tours Badge.
Regards
Bantam

[Denis]

Could this then mean that the pin version would be used on the working uniform? I can see then that the screw post or lugged versions would have been worn on Dress uniforms, where it wouldnt matter if the fitting of such a badge left tell tale holes.
There has been so much talk on various forums regarding these badges, that I thought we might nail down the definitive!
Thanks for the replies so far

[Bantam]

Hi Denis,
Your original question as stimulated the effect you desired.Logically though what would be the point of wearing the pin badge on the working dress when it could not be worn on operations ?I look forward to your and hopefully others contrbutions.
Regards
Bantam

[Juliet Papa Bravo]

I very foolishly listed a badge as

"WWII ROYAL AIR FORCE RAF METAL FLYING EAGLE - PILOTS WINGS - GILDED BADGE/PIN"

on ebay yesterday with a 99 pence start and was astounded to be almost immediately innundated with questions and offers.

Fortunately there was one very kind prospective buyer who took pity on me and sent me details of what I was actually trying to sell.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Denis

This is an invite for anyone owning a genuine example of the coveted Pathfinder Badge to also post images, front and reverse, here.

It seems that many people have been sold Sleeve or Cap Eagles fitted with screw posts, tabs or lugs with a clevis pin and told they were the real deal. From discussions with former Pathfinder aircrew, the original badge was made with a long pin brazed onto the reverse. The badge could only be worn while not on operations, a stipulation that ensured that the badge was required to be fixed by a pin and not lugs, posts or tabs, as these would leave marks in the battledress blouse pocket flap and could potentially indicate to the enemy, if captured, of the squadrons elite status as target markers.

Denis, The one I have - from a reputable source - is brooch pinned and has what I can remember (from seeing one in the 1950's) the correct pin and retaining catch i.e. it does NOT have screw posts, and I do not recall the one I saw in the 50's as having them either. The RAF guy I met was an ex-Pathfinders (but I cannot recall his name) and undoubtedly (as has been mentioned) there were screw post versions, but the one he showed me was (pretty much) the same as the one I have. Mine is quite worn.
I am willing to send you pics of the back for personal use only, but will not post it, due to all the copying and fakers around. They can improve their faking skills enough as it is.... but not at my expense.
David

[billy]

Hi here is an Aircrew brass badge with screw-posts, could fit the bill to be used as a Pathfinder badge and the 2nd a Silver Albatross which I was informed was a Pathfinders and as I see in all probability miss-informed, nice badge all the same but now I ask is this nothing more than a Sweet-hearts brooch! not that that,s a bad thing!! any information would be welcome and hope i,ve posted something usefull to some-one!

[MDS5866]

Greetings,

This is my first post and I picked this old topic as I have, in my possession, two Pathfinder Wings with posted backs that are stamped with Canadian manufacturers. Both are approximately 55mm in length. The patch also came with the wings but I haven't found anything similar during my searches

I would love to hear any feedback or posts and thanks in advance.

Mark

[cga00]

I'm no expert on Canadian insignia, but I would say the badge on the left with the 'queens' crown is a pretty recent officers badge from a chipbag style hat. The badge next to it appears to be of a similar age and is I think is worn above the sergeants stripes (left arm) in the rank of Sergeant aircrew. As such, neither is a Pathfinder wing.
Hope this helps, Craig

[fougasse1940]

Was there ever such a thing as a specific Canadian Pathfinder badge?

Rgds, Thomas.

[Frank Kelley]

Albatross?

Originally Posted by billy

Hi here is an Aircrew brass badge with screw-posts, could fit the bill to be used as a Pathfinder badge and the 2nd a Silver Albatross which I was informed was a Pathfinders and as I see in all probability miss-informed, nice badge all the same but now I ask is this nothing more than a Sweet-hearts brooch! not that that,s a bad thing!! any information would be welcome and hope i,ve posted something usefull to some-one!

[arrestingu]

my example.

[408Sqdn]

This is a subject on which there is much debate, with an almost impossible goal of agreement. As a staff member at the RAF Pathfinder Museum, I have access to many established and contemporary examples.

The types and styles of the PF badges in the collection include those with pin backs, screw posts and 'blade' fittings. All such types were definitely worn as period pieces.

The type I personally favour is the pin back version with the 'barrel' pin holder and 'squared' catch loop, but that is not to say that the other types are not 'right'.

I would suggest that badges which do not come direct from veterans must be treated with caution unless accompanied by undoubted provenance and / or an original Pathfinder award certificate signed by AVM D.C.T. Bennett.

I have in my own collection one which I believe is beyond doubt, which came with no certificate, direct from a veteran's family with medals and other undoubted original documents. It is the same type as offered for viewing by forum member 'arrestingu' earlier in this thread.