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  #31  
Old 29-12-18, 02:54 PM
MarkGD
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PL, more eloquently put, than i could say.
Thought this was a case of a 'sense of humour failure'.
Oh by the way, you must have been an 'Hofficer'
Best Regards Mark
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  #32  
Old 29-12-18, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by oc14 View Post
Frank

within the British army (and particularly the Cavalry and Royal Armoured Corps), due to their relatively short history and their lesser inclination to recruit their officers from a certain class, the RTR are commonly referred to as "The Peoples Cavalry" or "Chav Cav" - the implication being that they lack a certain "style" and heritage that other "Proper" Cavalry Regiments display.

The RTR counter this by referring to themselves (tongue in cheek or otherwise) as "The Men In Black" (MIB) a bit of a nod to the Will Smith film of the same name but also a reference to the black coveralls, black webbing belts, pullovers and berets that they sport.


A saying pretty common amongst (particularly) officers of Cavalry Regiments when speaking with officers of other regiments is to say "If you ain't Cav, you ain't" implying that if one is not Cavalry one is nothing.


There is a certain conception within the British army that Cavalry officers are slightly inbred and decorative individuals without a great deal of intellect - indeed some years ago whilst I was working at Catterick Garrison when the Scots D G were the resident RAC Training Regiment I heard one of their junior officers described as "being so thick that the other officers actually noticed"
.

It's known as banter and is a common feature of British army humour to consider one's own regiment to be superior to other units.


When I first joined the army I was advised that if I couldn't take a joke then I shouldn't have joined - a sentiment that others would do well to consider.


Ultimately, you all know and recognise that the truth is that only the Light Infantry (and latterly The Rifles) are "Chosen Men" and by default superior to every other "mob" in the British army.


PL
Oops, looks like OC14 was typing at the same time as me!
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  #33  
Old 29-12-18, 02:57 PM
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The important thing to remember is that it is forever "your" regiment that was, is and always will be (until it passes into oblivion as part of the next cost cutting exercise) the best.
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  #34  
Old 29-12-18, 02:59 PM
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The important thing to remember is that it is forever "your" regiment that was, is and always will be (until it passes into oblivion as part of the next cost cutting exercise) the best.
Correct Answer! Best Regards - Mark
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  #35  
Old 29-12-18, 04:35 PM
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Aaw I've missed the forum😁
I've been out scouring antique shops again but perhaps thankfully todays pocket money buys were a straightforward proficiency badge and a 247 Sqn Badge.

Thanks again all for the help and for adding further detail and er colour.

Alli
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  #36  
Old 29-12-18, 05:28 PM
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A "Special Proficiency" badge?
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  #37  
Old 29-12-18, 05:40 PM
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A "Special Proficiency" badge?
Why do I feel I missing something?...
Nope just another one of those little brass drum badges, only a £1 so thought I'd give it a home.
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  #38  
Old 29-12-18, 05:52 PM
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Sounds good enough for the price (I thought you meant a "SP" badge).
Note how I refrain from mentioning any humorous recollections concerning Drummers.
On the badge hunt in Stamford or Huntingdon today?
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  #39  
Old 29-12-18, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Sounds good enough for the price (I thought you meant a "SP" badge).
Note how I refrain from mentioning any humorous recollections concerning Drummers.
On the badge hunt in Stamford or Huntingdon today?
St Ives then Huntingdon, I also bought a silk kimono(yet another one) but that is off topic. I have drained stock in all of my usual haunts.
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  #40  
Old 29-12-18, 06:36 PM
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A Dragon Lady kimono? (Mickey Flanagan does a good comedy act based around his dragon kimono).
I'll know better than to visit those locations in the near future though I haven't tried the St Ives venues yet.
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  #41  
Old 29-12-18, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
A Dragon Lady kimono? (Mickey Flanagan does a good comedy act based around his dragon kimono).
I'll know better than to visit those locations in the near future though I haven't tried the St Ives venues yet.
I love Micky, does my heart good to hear the lingo of my people, being stranded here in spud land.
Dont waste your time with St Ives, Stamford is the best bet, though Huntingdon has that nice Fusilier father, son medal set I'd like if I had lots of monies. And they have a Household Cav Action Man. Thats where I got my 83 Para Smock and target too.
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  #42  
Old 29-12-18, 07:28 PM
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Incoming re. a few of those items.
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  #43  
Old 30-12-18, 08:37 PM
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So what's the current supposition re. this beret?
Definitely black and not a boot brushed dark blue.
The maroon patch fairly roughly sewn on.
A RDG attached to RTR or Westminster Dragoons who's wearing that unit's black beret and has applied the RDG badge backing to it, with the 17/21L motto just an add on to make the beret look more "complete" for a sale?
Did the black light / water mister treatments reveal any printed date or manufacturer's "ghost" markings in the lining?
Presumably not connected to this beret there were a batch of rifle green berets with maroon patches turning up for sale some months ago, I have no idea who would've worn those.
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  #44  
Old 09-01-19, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
To see the terms Chav Cav and Peoples Cavalry used to describe members of the Royal Tank Regiment is disappointing, the former, appears to me, at least, to be rather inappropriate at best, the latter, suggests that the regiment and it's members are somehow different to their cavalry counterparts, moreover, it might imply, depending upon who uses that term, that the cavalry is somehow superior.

Can someone please explain these terms?
Apologies for this long winded post, but the words are those of Mark Lynton, a German-Jewish RTR officer and author of “Accidental Journey: A Cambridge Intern’s Memory of World War II”, published by The Overlook Press.
It reminded me of the comments re. "regimental rivalries" on this thread.

I came across the book per chance whilst googling for information on the RTR officer’s Dress beret bullion badge (I need a badge to complete such a beret), I fully intend to buy a copy of what appears to be an excellent little publication.

It’s written a by a “Tankie” who is witty and eloquent, has a firm, sober grip on reality, and can refer to regimental “differences” sensibly and with humour as the vast majority of serving soldiers and ex-soldiers do (unless they're looking for a fight in the NAAFI) – no chips on shoulders or frothing at the mouth from this man despite his experiences, which included incarceration as an enemy alien and building public conveniences all over south western England as a member of the Pioneer Corps:

“As time went by, and it became increasingly clear that we would actually stay the course, the prime question became which regiment would we join, or which would have us. Wartime temporarily blunts some prejudices, but does not eradicate them, so Groucho Marx’s observation that he would not join a club which would have him as a member was as valid as ever.
To some few of us, the choice was predestined; if your great grandfather had battled with the Zulus at the head of the Nineteenth Lancers, that is where you went – Zulus or no Zulus. To most of us however, the basic choice was between the donkey-wallopers and one of the original tank regiments. Joining the cavalry meant stunning uniforms, impeccable social standing, and hobnobbing with both your peers and real peers; joining a tank regiment meant lower mess bills and a higher survival rate. In peacetime, a Horse Guard officer might spend in a month what a Royal Tank Regiment (RTR) officer could not earn in his entire career; wartime had curtailed truly Homeric mess bills, but Veuve Cliquot was still more expensive than a pint of bitter. As to the survival rate, there was a third and more lunatic alternative reserved for heroes and head cases. You could join a Reconnaissance Regiment, which meant patrolling ahead and on the flanks of advancing troops in very light tanks or armoured cars and taking quite appalling losses. Still, while alive, you were a member of legendry regiments and some evidently believed that being a dead Eleventh Hussar was socially more acceptable than being a live Tank Regiment member. In some circles that was quite true.
I opted for a Tank Regiment and hoped to be accepted there; there was no particular reason to try for Third Royal Tanks, except that regimental folklore had it that Third and Fifth Tanks were primi inter pares and why not the best?
About three weeks before the passing-out date, final RTR notices were handed out, and some twenty of us knew that we had somehow slipped through. Not only that but we were also told which regiment had accepted us, so as to allow time for uniforms to be tailored (to be donned within about thirty seconds after having duly passed out). Among all the military tailors available in Camberley and London, I picked Gieves at One Saville Row. In retrospect I assume that the address impressed me; Gieves was famed for naval uniforms and for its steep prices, neither of which should have been a selling point with me. RTR uniforms did not present much of a challenge to a military tailor…………………………
………………….. Cavalry uniforms were a far more demanding undertaking; some came only in twill, some only in light beige, some had flared jackets, others skintight trousers (and some of those in colour or tartans), and some uniform jackets had black buttons or cloth buttons or six buttons or twelve buttons – none of the cavalry regiments ever quite left the nineteenth century – nor should they have”.
Everyone in tanks, donkey-wallopers and RTR people, wore the black beret, but the beret badges of course differed widely, and only RTR regiments wore black berets off duty as well, whereas excavalry types would then revert to all kinds of arcane headgear………………
……………………You were supposed to wear a pistol, but hardly anyone did; by the time the Germans were that close, you should be elsewhere………………
…………………..You were supposed to have your map case with you at all times; presumably so that, even if you did not know where you were heading, in case of your capture, the Germans would……….

The bedroll was the critical difference between being in tanks and comfortable And being in the infantry and in trouble. The infantry just trotted around and everything they needed, aside from some ammunition and a little water, had to be brought to them by trucks. Trucks do not like rto go where people shoot at each other, and that was where the infantry was supposed to be; so there was this dilemma…..
Not so with tanks…………………………………."
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  #45  
Old 10-01-19, 04:30 PM
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Long winded but quite interesting old chap. Very good. Carry on.
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