US General Petraeus,too much bling???

[fougasse1940]

Thanks Voltigeur, your explanation makes sense. Interesting.
The difference between PPCLI OR and Officers badges; w/m monogram, gilding strap & crown for OR's vs. gilt monogram & silver strap and crown for officers?
I take it the red thing on his beret is some sort of poppy-badge?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[Voltigeur]

Hi JJ, it is Gen.Petraeus wearing the French para badge. I understand that it is common military courtesy to award (after a certain number of jumps)jump wings to a friendly country's serving officers and other ranks.For Canadians, I understand that they are allowed to wear foreign badges only when they are in that country and not in Canada. As for the other small badge above the wings....???????

For fougasse, you're right and yes it's a poppy.The pic was probably taken at some 11th November ceremony. As for my explanation,it's only good until someone else comes up with a better one.

[Michael Reintjes]

I think Gen Mckenzie is a good friend of Lou Grimshaw so maybe Lou convinced him that this is the nicest and coolest of PPCLI badges...and he would be right in my opinion.

[Voltigeur]

Good point Michael. I will ask Lou at the next Etobicoke show. And coming from a RCR that's unusual.
Jo

[Bill A]

Is not Gen. Mackenzie an Honorary Col?

[Voltigeur]

'morning Bill. Just received an answer from Louis Grimshaw about this topic. My question was....Is Gen. Lewis MacKenzie an Honorary Colonel or an Honorary Lt.Colonel of the Patricia's???
His answer came, and I quote...<<The PPCLI (sic) has only a Colonel of the Regiment and does not have any appointments such as Honorary Colonel or Lt.Cols. Lew MacKenzie has never held the appointment of Col of the Regt.>>

Cheers to all.
Jo

[jubilationtcornpone]

Compare the picture of General Petraeus to one of either General Eisenhower or Gen Bradley taken in WWII. For that matter compare just about any US flag officer from WWII to a present day US flag officer. Of course the exception is General Patton in the opening scene of the movie Patton. Very accurate except they cleaned up the language. Given the lack of US decorations at that time just what are all of his decorations? Then, of course, there was General MacArthur. It is hard to find a picture of him wearing any of his ribbons. If he had such a picture taken I'm sure it would have put General Petraeus to shame. MacArthur was not a modest man.

The badge General Petraeus is wearing above the jump wings above his right pocket is for the 101st AB division. This strikes me as odd as I would have expected the insignia for an infantry regiment, probably one of the parachute ones. He started as an infantry officer. He is a general and can wear what he pleases. Take a look at the picture taken of General Custer during the American Civil War as a major general.

Don

[Voltigeur]

Photo of Gen. MacArthur, taken in 1932 in Washington, accompanied by his second in command,then Col.Dwight D. Eisenhower.
http://pro.corbis.com/images/U195341...0609620D832%7D

A second photo,taken in Brsbane,around 1943 with a US naval officer.
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/sigint/spyron01.jpg

Finally from our friend at Wikipedia, the service summary and medals of Gen.MacArthur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service...glas_MacArthur

Jo

[jubilationtcornpone]

Jo,

First, I agree with your point in your first post which started this thread. Second, my bad. I should have known in the internet age nothing is too hard to find. Point about MacArthur. He always dressed to present an image. The image he wanted to project to the world during WWII was the plain uniform, no insignia except for rank, battered hat, corncob pipe, etc. In the first picture, taken during the Bonus March, he should have listened to his aide, Major Eisenhower, and stayed in his office. The image he chose to project was very different from the one he projects wading ashore returning to the Philipines in 1944. I will have to find a picture of him addressing congress on his return to the US after Truman fired him to see what uniform he wore and what he wore on it. At the time of the Bonus March Eisenhower was a major 18 years out of West Point and not a ribbon on his uniform. I wonder if at that point in his career he had any to wear. That would not be true if he served today. At that point in his career he had already been a very successful officer.
Third, prior to the US civil war there were no medals in the US army or navy. The main way to recognize a successful officer was to give him a brevit promotion one or two grades above his actual rank. During the war he may have served at his higher rank, Custer was a major general of volunteers, but after the war they all reverted to their rank in the regular army. Lt. Colonel Custer was always addressed as general. In what other army in the late 19th century would you have had colonels, majors, and captains all addressing each other as general? Silly system. Most of the ribbons Mac wears in these pictures are foreign awards. In the US army he could wear them. Is that true in the Canadian or British armies? Could those generals have worn a display like Mac's? Are there any pictures of them taken just after WWI? I am curious.

Good thread.

Don

[Voltigeur]

Hi Don, you make some very good points. I understand that Mac's image was a bit "tarnished" after the Bonus Army Affair. One thing that is puzzling to me is why Maj. Eisenhower's uniform is lacking any ribbons. Surely after serving so many years he would have been entitled to something,even a Good Conduct medal or a Long Service one. BTW, another Major participated in the Bonus Army incident, a certain Major George S. Patton.
As for Canadian awards and decorations, surely someone will be able to shed some light on the reasons why the Canadian Forces hierarchy will not allow the wearing of foreign awards even from the US or the UK. Case in point, the US Bronze Star with "V" device awarded to Master Corporal Graham Ragsdale of Third Battalion PPCLI who was denied the right of wearing the US medal.
Finally, a well know pose of Mac in the Phillipines. In his farewell speech in Washington,after being sacked by Truman, he was in a civilian suit.
Jo

http://www.philippinepics.com/assets...hur_Manila.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Ragsdale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Furlong

[jubilationtcornpone]

Hi Jo,

if you go to http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/index.html which is the Eisenhower Museum there is a link to a list of his awards, medals, and decorations. He was eligible to have worn several during the Bonus March. So, why didn't he? My guess - by not wearing any he was making a statement about MacArthur and Mac's treatment of the Bonus marchers. There was no honor in what was done and I think that Eisenhower knew it. Very subtle. If you ever get a chance visit the museum. His Order of Victory is on display. not very impressive until you realize what it is made of. i will have to watch Mac's speech to congress again. Can't remember what he wore for sure. Good theater.

Don

[saumua]

As a boy from down under I am constantly amazed at the relative medallic recognition for the same action.

A great example is Vietnam - Aussie, yanks and Kiwis served together at the same bases in the same actions - a kiwi would get 2 gongs, an aussie 2 gongs (got more later) a yank would have a chest full.......... go figure?

I have a mate who served in Vietnam 1971 with NZSAS and got one medal (they got withdrawn after 5 month when our government figured out it was stupid waste of time) - those guys saw more action than any NZer since.

Modern NZ guys get on average 5-6 medals for a couple of UN missions - NZSAS guys got 2 for 6 months in Afganistan and a presidential citation from the US Seals. The yanks once again have chests full.

Originally Posted by Voltigeur

Hi Gentlemen, well I'm surprised, to say the least, at the reactions to my postings. I wanted to show the difference between two neighbouring countries concerning medals and awards.
Except for Gen. Hillier and MacKenzie, both had their fair share of chances to see some actions, Gens. Dallaire and de Chastelain (BTW, a former Chief of Defence Staff) compared to Gen, Petraeus, Hillier and MacKenzie look like they spent their time in DND HQ in Ottawa even though Dallaire had one heck of a rough ride in Rwanda.
Remember,Gen. MacKenzie was at Sarajevo (1992) when nobody, and I mean, nobody wanted to be there at the start of the civil war. Gen.de Chastelain was the one who brought some peace in Ireland, after how many years of "troubles". Gen.Hillier,was the one Canadian deemed worthy to be Deputy Commander of III US Armoured Corps (in 1998),and finishing his career as Chief of Defence Staff.
To answer fougasse1940's question,Gen MacKenzie started his military career in the early 60's with ,the then regular army unit, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada and, who is going to tell him that he is not supposed to wear HIS badge.
Regards to all.
Jo