RMP Sgt.(?)...well........hummmmm.....

[Eddie Parks]

Well yes - but on the other hand look at the treatment of the Jewish members of the Palestinian Pioneer Corps who were captured in the disastrous campaign in Greece and could well have faced a grisly fate. In fact, they were treated exactly the same as any other British soldier. Many of them attempted to escape from the camp in Poland and were returned to the camp with no undue reprisals.

Many of them were German nationals and could have reasonably been treated as traitors.

There are as always many facets to any story. But let me say that if any soldier under my command had ever inflicted a "fat lip" on a PW of any rank - or indeed any civilian under military arrest - I would have seen to it that he/she was prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The only time in my 20 years of commissioned service that I struck a soldier was a WO2 who was about to inflict a little extrajudicial punishment on a PIRA bomber. He later formally apologised on parade in front of the whole battery.

Eddie

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

Well yes - but on the other hand look at the treatment of the Jewish members of the Palestinian Pioneer Corps who were captured in the disastrous campaign in Greece and could well have faced a grisly fate. In fact, they were treated exactly the same as any other British soldier. Many of them attempted to escape from the camp in Poland and were returned to the camp with no undue reprisals.

Many of them were German nationals and could have reasonably been treated as traitors.

I expect that the six million other Jews killed by the Nazis were most grateful that these POWs were spared a similar fate to their own.

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

There are as always many facets to any story. But let me say that if any soldier under my command had ever inflicted a "fat lip" on a PW of any rank - or indeed any civilian under military arrest - I would have seen to it that he/she was prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

As you were duty bound to do and rightly so.

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

The only time in my 20 years of commissioned service that I struck a soldier was a WO2 who was about to inflict a little extrajudicial punishment on a PIRA bomber. He later formally apologised on parade in front of the whole battery.

Officers striking soldiers, shocking! Surely not in the British army? I knew of an officer who would threaten to punch his junior officers if they didn't perform and as we know, other ranks had ways of maintaining disciplining between themselves without taking things up the chain of command but usually not before being given a choice of doing so.

As for having a warrant officer publicly shamed in front of other ranks , I can only feel for him and although I don't know the full circumstances I may have had some sympathy for him and understanding for his feelings toward the murderous scum that you mentioned who was' nearly' on the other end of his disdain. You sound proud of that event Eddie but I certainly would have thought very little of an officer who stood by while this WO was demeaned, a view I suspect knowing soldiers as I do that some of those present on the day would have shared.

I have no problem with the law of armed conflict nor did I ever whilst serving but an allowance even if in thought only rather than deed has to be made in some instances for human nature, not least when fighting a terrorist organisation who of course have no time or respect for human life or the law of armed conflict.

[ebro]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

The only time in my 20 years of commissioned service that I struck a soldier was a WO2 who was about to inflict a little extrajudicial punishment on a PIRA bomber. He later formally apologised on parade in front of the whole battery.
Eddie

Eddie,
If your PIRA bomber had just blown up Musgrave Military Wing would you have been so quick to strike your WO2? Sometimes decisions are not totally black & white.
Other Eddie

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by ebro

Eddie,
If your PIRA bomber had just blown up Musgrave Military Wing would you have been so quick to strike your WO2? Sometimes decisions are not totally black & white.
Other Eddie

Very shaky ground: "about to"!

Any lawyer [or barrack room lawyer come to that] would tear that to ribbons.
As for a commissioned officer striking a junior, it beggars belief. I thought only lesser breeds without the law struck their men.

[Eddie Parks]

So did I, and I reported myself to my CO within minutes. There was an enquiry and I was exonerated.

As to "about to" - the blow was on the way and landed on me.

Proud? No. Pleased I stopped an act which would have finished his career? Yes.

His apology was unplanned, spontaneous and unexpected.

[ebro]

Grumpy,
I had a flashback to the situation in the 1970/80s and I could feel the emotion that WO2 felt. When you have a bomber in your hands and you can see his handy work it could be enough to tip the mildest of men.
Eddie

[Eddie Parks]

Exactly, and nobody else was going to stop him.

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

So did I, and I reported myself to my CO within minutes. There was an enquiry and I was exonerated.

As to "about to" - the blow was on the way and landed on me.

Proud? No. Pleased I stopped an act which would have finished his career? Yes.

His apology was unplanned, spontaneous and unexpected.

Fair play Eddie and I accept that in my post I was quick to judge for which I apologise, had you given this clarification in your original post my comments would have been at the very least, tempered!

Thank you anyway.

I feel that in general terms that the subject of POWs and their treatment whether actual or perceived is an emotive subject that could be debated at length with countless examples quoted from all periods of history but I feel that the majority of us in fact share the same or similar views with regard to what is in fact no more than common decency in the hell that is war.

Regards to all.

Ry

[Frank Kelley]

I do fear it would have to be a multi volume set, even if you just started with the first six weeks of actual campaign in France and the low countries, from the 10th of May 1940, that, in itself would be a very considerable volume.
Quite frankly, their behaviour at that point is certainly not surprising, they had learnt their trade from their own fathers and grandfathers.

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

There were so many similar examples of the Germans' "respect" for the LOAC that you could write a book hopefully including the treatment of escaping POWs and the Commando order.
.

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Quite frankly, their behaviour at that point is certainly not surprising, they had learnt their trade from their own fathers and grandfathers.

Who in turn learned from us in the days of NO QUARTER:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=trench+raid

[Frank Kelley]

No, sadly they were already very proficient indeed, not only, in particular, before the Marne, but actually before that war.

Originally Posted by Charlie 585

Who in turn learned from us in the days of NO QUARTER:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ht=trench+raid

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

No, sadly they were already very proficient indeed, not only, in particular, before the Marne, but actually before that war.

I don't doubt it Frank and no slight was intended on our side, I merely wished to give an example of how things were in regard to the subject at that point in time as illustrated by the content of the thread that I linked to.

War is a terrible business isn't it!

Regards.

Ry

[Frank Kelley]

Yes, war is indeed, terrible, as members of the 2nd Battalion Royal Norfolk Regiment, in particular, found to their cost after surrendering to the enemy at La Paradis, truly appalling.

[CAM]

Hear, hear!

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

Off again on a wild goose chase!!

I do find it quite amusing, but also a little unsettling, that there is today such an aversion to saluting. In the late 60s when I was commissioned it didn't exist and saluting was regarded as a mutual courtesy between fellow professionals and not in any way demeaning to either party. All though my military career I saluted all superior officers of all services and all nationalities including Soviet officers during the Cold War. I considered this no more than polite. Equally, I would never, ever, allow a failure to salute go unchallenged.

This was a time when many single soldiers still "walked out" in uniform and were expected to recognise and salute their own officers even if they were in plain clothes. Soldiers out of uniform would "brace" and say good morning/afternoon/evening sir.

If you were walking out of uniform in London and happened to pass a Guards barracks you could expect a butt salute from the sentries. How they knew who to salute was a mystery!

In 1970 my regiment took over a barracks in Germany from a Canadian unit. There was a US Army detachment in the barracks who had never saluted Canadian officers. They were finally persuaded of the error of their ways when about 80% of them (including the CO) were in our guardroom awaiting rescue.

I simply do not understand why it is so hard for so many people to be polite?