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  #1  
Old 03-05-20, 12:10 PM
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Default 38th Gurkhas crest.

During WW2 there were a number of Gurkha units raised in addition to extra battalions for the 10 Gurkha Regiments of the line. There were 2 Garrison Battalions 25th and 26th raised from wounded soldiers and surplus recruits for guard duties and as protection troops in Burma forward areas. These Battalions had their own cap badge ( examples shown ) and should be quite familiar to the forum - NB both badges are commonly faked.

There were however 5 training battalions formed in 1943 and disbanded in early 1946 - that are less well known:
14th Gurkha Rifles - Raised at Mohan to provide troops for the 1GR and 4GR.
29th Gurkha Rifles - Raised at Dehra Dun to provide troops for 2GR and 9thGR
38thGurkha Rifles - Raised at Dehra Dun to provide troops for 3GR and 8GR
56th Gurkha Rifles - Raised at Abbottabad to provide troops for 5GR and 6GR
710th Gurkha Rifles - Raised at Alhilal to provide troops for 7GR and 10GR
As far as I know the troops wore the badge of their "parent" regiment and there were no "war raised unit" specific insignia worn. However there is an intriguing passage in the Regimental History of the 8th Gurkha Rifles : "In August 1944 the 38thGR was augmented by the arrival of trainees of the Assam Regiment - With the coming of the Assam Regiment a crest was designed to commemorate the fusion of the three regiments. It combined the crossed "A"s of HM Queen Alexandra's personal cypher with the crossed kukris of the 8th , the whole superimposed on a Dao to represent the Assam Regt" There is nothing more said about it and whether it was just a crest for stationary purposes or it was turned into a badge is unclear. Recently in correspondence with another collector he mentioned he had an image of the crest ( attached ) and that apparently there was a brief history of the unit published privately shortly after the war. As I'd never seen it before I thought forum members might be interested to see it. If anyone knows anything further about these training units I would be really interested to hear from them. Tim
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  #2  
Old 03-05-20, 02:05 PM
Khyber Khyber is offline
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Hi Tim,
Thanks for posting this. Very informative. I'd always wondered who had thought up the numbers for the fake badges that come up often, so good to know these units existed.. Would have be nice to get the last badge, if it was ever approved and actually produced.

Actually amazing that with a war on these things were actually happening in the background, but I suppo the bureaucracy was always functioning behind the scenes to get all this done, which in its own way was important.
Regards,
Sunil
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Old 03-05-20, 02:44 PM
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A brass shoulder title which often appears on dealers sites attributed to the 39th Gurkha Rifles ( there was no such unit ) and the title belongs to the 39th Royal Garhwal Rifles - also the 15th Gurkha Rifles - which is just a fantasy badge and no unit ever existed with that name - but it doesn't stop dealers trying to charge £60 for this "war time unit" !
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Old 03-05-20, 02:45 PM
peter monahan peter monahan is offline
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In the 1980s, when Indian military collecting was a horse of a different colour indeed, I had the honour of knowing Lt. Col. Tony Mains, ex 9GR. He recounts in a book whose title my aged brain can't dredge up, being involved in the retreat from Burma and, at one point, commanding a company of the '39th Gurkhas". Both the 3GR and 9GR had been so reduced that the two battalions made an ad hoc merger for the duration of the retreat into India.

I don't believe, however, that there were ever '39th' badges struck.
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Old 03-05-20, 03:16 PM
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Hi Peter would love to know more about that unit - as you say it might have been an "unofficial" temporary title. There was a 5th/3rd Gurkha Rifles formed in February 1942 from the remnants of the 1/3GR and 2/5GR who were amalgamated for a brief period after severe losses being respectively 107 and 227 men strong after the Sittang battles - it was broken up in May 1942 and the men returned to their respective units. I'm sure that there were a number of such instances during WW2 - whether that constitutes a unit that warranted a formal amalgamation and change of title or just an expedient use of short hand for managing the surviving resources - I don't know. The 5th/3rd unit does get a mention in the Musuems book on the Lineages and Composition of Gurkha Regiments in British Service - I'm fairly certain that no one would have been worrying about creating a new badge for them though!
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Old 04-05-20, 12:49 PM
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This may embarrass me enough to go and dig out Tony's book and check my facts! I met him back when the Indian Military Historical Society was the 'Indian Military Collector's Society' and he was one of two ex-GR Honorary members. When my wife and I visited the UK, Tony and his wife put us up and he not only took me to the Gurkha Museum at Aldershot but arranged a tour of Sandhurst, which included a Gurkha Sergeant who was, I think, there as a completment to Tony. A great bloke.
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Old 05-05-20, 06:13 PM
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They were 'Brigaded' training depots with no specific insignia. The badge was for stationary etc, like the 11th GR in WW1 with no official insignia. Although as with the 11th some officer may have had something made up.

The tradition continue today with the Indian Army having 'Brigaded' Gurkha training deports. The staff there wear two cap badges in the Kilmarnock !

The 15th is a different story as badges were made and came to light when I think Firmins sold off all old stock. I obtained one from Hugh King who had bought the bulk. I wonder if the die was sold as well as they are prolific on Evil bay.
Steve
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Old 07-05-20, 09:05 AM
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Default 11GR

Hi Steve - regarding the 11th Gurkha rifles - I understood that at the beginning of their formation in 1918 the Gurkha rifle company's that had been transferred to the 11GR continued to wear their "parent" regt insignia - but Ashok Nath contends in his book that later on "a common regimental badge arose" - "worn by all ranks" - he even illustrates both examples in his book Sowars and Sepoys - these are in addition to officers badges that may have been privately made. Tim
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Old 07-05-20, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter monahan View Post
In the 1980s, when Indian military collecting was a horse of a different colour indeed, I had the honour of knowing Lt. Col. Tony Mains, ex 9GR. He recounts in a book whose title my aged brain can't dredge up, being involved in the retreat from Burma and, at one point, commanding a company of the '39th Gurkhas". Both the 3GR and 9GR had been so reduced that the two battalions made an ad hoc merger for the duration of the retreat into India.

I don't believe, however, that there were ever '39th' badges struck.
Two titles by Lt Col Tony Mains

Tim
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Old 07-05-20, 01:53 PM
peter monahan peter monahan is offline
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Thank you, Tim. I was never lucky enough to get a copy of the first one.

Peter
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  #11  
Old 17-05-20, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter monahan View Post
Thank you, Tim. I was never lucky enough to get a copy of the first one.

Peter
There are copies available via Ama... Peter,very reasonably priced too.
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