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  #1  
Old 05-09-20, 08:28 PM
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Default Boderick cap badges

I'm pretty sure, every post I've read on the forum regarding badges fitted to the Boderick Cap, assert the use of a slidered badge.
I've come across this internet site covering the Yorkshire Regiment.
With some images showing caps and badges.
I for one have never come across the Yorkshire Regiment cap badge with a slider.
Any thoughts.
https://greenhowards.org.uk/brodrick-cap/
Tony
P.S apologies for spelling!
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Last edited by tonyb; 05-09-20 at 08:50 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-09-20, 06:22 AM
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I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that all badges worn in the Brodrick cap were slidered, that's for sure.
I believe that the slider (Long) was brought in for the Slouch hat along with a brass socket on the inside to hold it in place.
I think badges worn on the Brodrick were both slidered and lugged and in my opinion probably more lugged, to use up the old stock of lugged KC era badges.

Neil
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Old 06-09-20, 09:22 AM
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All the Royal Marine badges fitted to Brodrick caps were lugs.
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Old 06-09-20, 09:30 AM
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I've never understood why the Brodrick would require a long slidered badge when a lugged badge or short slidered one would appear to be able to easily pierce at least the front flap, perhaps the flap and fabric of the body of the cap as well.
I've never handled a Brodrick cap though.

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 09-09-20 at 06:08 AM. Reason: Just noticed that auto correct prefers "Broderick".
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Old 06-09-20, 09:42 AM
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There is a wealth of information at TNA (The National Achives) - here are some of my notes

enjoy


TNA, WO359 page 78 ACD/S. Lancs/437 dated 12/8/1902. Titled “Badges Helmets in India method of Fixing”
“I am directed by the secretary of state for war to inform you that new badges as fixed in India by a long shank as on pattn, enclosed have been approved for wear at colonial stations upon the Indian pattern helmet and the service dress hat.
At home, the Field [Service] Cap (=side cap) was replaced in 1902 by a new cap, known as the ‘Brodrick’ RACD 9. This was a peakless cap much disliked by the army and finally given up in 1906 and replaced by the peaked Forage Cap
Note in RACD 11, 203 of a meeting 5th March 1903 regarding sliders for HPC for FSH and Univ Hddress and ‘For NP Forage Caps’ (the Brodrick cap)
‘That existing Fd Cap badges shall be used and to be fitted with a vertical shank
There was clearly little delay in implementation and it can be seen that the loops on the SP card (Fig xx) were replaced by a vertical shank on 23.03.1903. Examples would then be forwarded to manufacturers. Indeed, an order by the WO noted on 04.06.1903 that ‘The shanks of the patterns of these badges have been altered.’.
The RACD records ( TNA WO 359/13, 169; 359/14, 80) date this order from 28.03.1906 and a note on the SP states ‘shank reduced xxx’ dated the same day (xx).


‘NP’ = New Pattern, which clearly means that the OP (Old Pattern) was now obsolete
BTW the ‘Universal Headdress’ or ‘service dress hat’ (also known as ‘felt hat’ in DR)
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Old 06-09-20, 03:48 PM
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Julian,
Does this include the badges already
issued and in use ?

Neil.
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Old 06-09-20, 04:14 PM
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Neil -
Already when ?
Badges were issued almost every year
It's difficult to pick a year to see which badges were issued.
It's easier to go through the patterns of a particular regiment / badge


Tony -
The first cap badge for the Yorkshire Regt was Pattern 4694/1898 BM (13th Sept '98) presumably with loops then the Patt 4694/1903 (WM) had a VS but was modified on 20 Nov 1905 by having the "VS (slider) removed from the crown to the centre of the badge".
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Old 06-09-20, 04:40 PM
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The badges they were wearing when the order was issued.
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Old 06-09-20, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLR View Post
There is a wealth of information at TNA (The National Achives) - here are some of my notes

enjoy


TNA, WO359 page 78 ACD/S. Lancs/437 dated 12/8/1902. Titled “Badges Helmets in India method of Fixing”
“I am directed by the secretary of state for war to inform you that new badges as fixed in India by a long shank as on pattn, enclosed have been approved for wear at colonial stations upon the Indian pattern helmet and the service dress hat.
At home, the Field [Service] Cap (=side cap) was replaced in 1902 by a new cap, known as the ‘Brodrick’ RACD 9. This was a peakless cap much disliked by the army and finally given up in 1906 and replaced by the peaked Forage Cap
Note in RACD 11, 203 of a meeting 5th March 1903 regarding sliders for HPC for FSH and Univ Hddress and ‘For NP Forage Caps’ (the Brodrick cap)
‘That existing Fd Cap badges shall be used and to be fitted with a vertical shank
There was clearly little delay in implementation and it can be seen that the loops on the SP card (Fig xx) were replaced by a vertical shank on 23.03.1903. Examples would then be forwarded to manufacturers. Indeed, an order by the WO noted on 04.06.1903 that ‘The shanks of the patterns of these badges have been altered.’.
The RACD records ( TNA WO 359/13, 169; 359/14, 80) date this order from 28.03.1906 and a note on the SP states ‘shank reduced xxx’ dated the same day (xx).


‘NP’ = New Pattern, which clearly means that the OP (Old Pattern) was now obsolete
BTW the ‘Universal Headdress’ or ‘service dress hat’ (also known as ‘felt hat’ in DR)
Very interesting Julian, Colin Churchill in his collar badges book quotes lots of these dates and numbers, presumably he got his information from the same source, but he also frequently adds quotes like "It was emphasised that the new badge was not to be issued until existing stocks had been used up", is it possible that could have been the case with some of these rear head dress badge fittings?

Rob
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Old 08-09-20, 07:32 PM
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I have seen a number of Brodrick caps with lugged badges, that certainly do appear original to the particular cap in question, but, they are not common things to encounter these days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
I've never understood why the Brodrick would require a long slidered badge when a lugged badge or short slidered one would appear to be able to easily pierce at least the front flap, perhaps the flap and fabric of the body of the cap as well.
I've never handled a Broderick cap though.
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  #11  
Old 09-09-20, 05:48 AM
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I believe that the short life of this unpopular hat means that the vast majority were worn using the lugged caps badges that were previously worn with the FSC. I suspect that if the hat had not been replaced in 1905-06 then you would have seen more examples with the the badges fitted with sliders.

Alan
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