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  #1  
Old 02-02-21, 12:44 AM
Exmilcop Exmilcop is offline
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Default Welsh, perhaps?

Good day all. I've acquired a mixed bag of estate military odds and ends. Most of it is easily identifiable and I nailed down the things I'd not encountered before with basic research. BUT! I have a real "head-scratcher" on my hands. No Google search phraseology or change in description leads me to any sort of identification or any leads or hints on where to go, hence my request to you lot.
As you'll note from the pics, it seems to me to be a Welsh griffin of some sort. I doubt it's military as there's not a single letter or number of any sort on the thing. Even the construction is odd, being a brass plated lead badge. The six pin attachment system looks similar to the type used on the old domed felt "bobby" style helmets that were in vogue in the early 20th. century hereabouts. I'm all at sea on this one and can't even confirm it's British. Any insights or thoughts would be most appreciated or even (hope against hope) a positive identification. Perhaps a band or organization insignia? In short gentlemen, HELP! Thanks for looking.
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  #2  
Old 02-02-21, 07:52 AM
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A Wyvern rather than a Griffin, I think, but that doesnt help narrow down continent let alone country or region that for the badge.......
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  #3  
Old 02-02-21, 10:21 AM
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It will be the livery badge of some aristocratic family or other, very difficult to attribute without spending sometime searching through various copies of Burke's Peerage.

It isn't represented amongst this small section of livery buttons.

https://sites.google.com/site/livery...ns-and-wyverns
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  #4  
Old 02-02-21, 12:09 PM
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.... its a Wyvern.

Leicester has a Wyvern crest ....... but in this case it appears to be a family crest (so a livery item).
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  #5  
Old 02-02-21, 01:57 PM
Exmilcop Exmilcop is offline
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Default Thank you all.

I typed in a search for Wyvern collar dog and it shows several examples attributed to Wessex, but still nothing with a spear. As I said in my original post, it's a head-scratcher.
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Old 02-02-21, 11:07 PM
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Typical Livery badge construction.

'In Front Of A Tilting-Spear Erect Proper., A Wyvern Statant Or, Resting The Dexter Claw Upon A Crescent Argent.'

Palmer family

https://www.myfamilysilver.com/pages...48&name=Palmer
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Old 03-02-21, 03:06 AM
Exmilcop Exmilcop is offline
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YOU STAR!!!!!! I think you've nailed it. Any idea if this is worth anything?
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  #8  
Old 03-02-21, 12:04 PM
Exmilcop Exmilcop is offline
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Mike, you're stellar! All the search parameters I entered didn't yield anything worthwhile. I assume these were worn on livery during formal occasions by footmen or butlers or suchlike? Do you know if it would have been worn on the collar or breast or shoulder? Is there any collector value to these? I have 2 of them. Thank you.
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Old 03-02-21, 12:47 PM
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..... there is always collector value in the Livery items.... for example :-


Lt.Col. G. A. LEGH KECK, ESQ. LYC 1803.11.01-1860
Sept. 4. At his seat, Bank-hall, Lancashire,
Lt.Col. George Anthony Legh-Keck, Esq., Col. of Prince Albert's Own Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry


A very highest quality Silver-Plated original Livery Button, from the Gaunt Pattern Book Archive. The quoted details below are from the original 1830s notes on the Pattern Book pages.

This Button has the twin-crested heraldic design of, and was made for: 'Coln. Keck, Stouton, Leicestershire'.

[Lt.Col. George Anthony LEGH KECK, Esquire. Leicester Yeomanry Cavalry 1803-1860, of Stoughton Hall, Leics. Colonel of Prince Albert's Own Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry. Born 1784, at Stoughton, died 1860].
Backmark: WILLm [Georgian Crown] HILL & Co., BIRMINGHAM.
Diameter: 26mm

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Old 03-02-21, 01:58 PM
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How could I go about getting an idea of fair market value for the 2 livery badges and a forum within which to put them into the hands of those who would appreciate them? With military insignia, medals, etc., I can usually figure out where I stand. These things I assume to be very much a niche market and totally out of the realm of my experience.
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Old 03-02-21, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exmilcop View Post
Mike, you're stellar! All the search parameters I entered didn't yield anything worthwhile. I assume these were worn on livery during formal occasions by footmen or butlers or suchlike? Do you know if it would have been worn on the collar or breast or shoulder? Is there any collector value to these? I have 2 of them. Thank you.
Horse furniture I believe, for mounting on leather.
similar construction piece on ebay 95! and he has sold one of four.
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Old 03-02-21, 07:07 PM
Exmilcop Exmilcop is offline
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Thank you again Mike. As I understand it, I can't post in the classifieds until I've had 10 posts. Also, the one you sent in the link is sliver plated and the 2 I have are brass plated. I may take a shot at ebay. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and all that. I have bits and pieces (medals, buttons, regalia, etc.) in which I have no personal interest. Much of what I have came as part of a lot that I'd pick up at estate sales and the like. Here in Canada, gun/militaria shows are dead due to the virus scare and no end to the lock-downs in the foreseeable future.
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Old 03-02-21, 10:17 PM
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Livery buttons and badges do have good value for the most part; to a somewhat limited audience albeit.
Shows here in the US are likewise gone for the time being.

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