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  #31  
Old 28-08-16, 10:51 PM
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fougasse1940 fougasse1940 is offline
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Here you go: to the left a proper KC OR's badge, to the right my fake. I have planned when time allows to teach myself how to fret badges, this will be my first try.

Rgds, Thomas.
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File Type: jpg KOSB 2.jpg (76.3 KB, 72 views)
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  #32  
Old 28-08-16, 10:57 PM
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Default KOSB

Thanks dubaiguy, for your comments, from memory I think the lugs on the 25th badge are N/S.
Regards Phil.

Last edited by Drummajor; 28-08-16 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Wrong Name
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  #33  
Old 28-08-16, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy View Post
unsure of the QC WM version I have so opinions welcome.
The KOSB still had stocks of KC badges in the 1970's so presumably they would have exhausted those and gone straight to A/A badges. QC W/M badges come both in seeded and unseeded versions, as do the A/A badges. I believe from the same die.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #34  
Old 29-08-16, 06:32 AM
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The Regular Bn was still wearing metal k/c although the q/c version has a sealed date of 1955 in K&K. However if you read Hagwalthers book you will see that stock levels meant that it took some years for the a a/a q/c badge to be required.

The w/m q/c ones are commercial ones imo.
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  #35  
Old 29-08-16, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Yours is an officers badge if solid silver or nco's badge if plated or w/m.

Remember that there was a strong tradition within the KOSB to wear the oldest badge possible, either handed down from ancestors who served earlier, hence the tradition, or bought wherever possible, which muddles the discussion about what is original and what is not.

Attached pic was taken in Irak. Note the Victorian pattern badges.

Rgds, Thomas.
Thanks Thomas.

The fretted round bottom scroll badge I have is w/m and you now confirm what I was rapidly concluding myself. That it was intended as an NCO's - though of course as a hand me down could have been worn by just about anyone. I even asked my sister who lives in a village outside Berwick to invite the retired KOSB major who lives close by in for a dram. I was hoping for the price of a couple of whisky's I could get some info from the horses' mouth. She may do so yet.

To add to the fake rounded scroll KC you show, I include a scan of 2 fake QVC's that I had picked up and disposed of. This is the fake I mentioned earlier and started off my reservation about round bottom O/R badges. eBay is peppered with this QVC one and they come with various degrees of artificial ageing. Usually a brownish wash that has been quickly and haphazardly painted on.

I didn't realize that there was also a seeded version of the a/a badge - thanks for that info. I'll need to look for one. Perhaps worth reiterating that there is also a smaller a/a badge often sold as the small glengarry badge which is nothing of the sort.

Thanks again for the info.
Mark
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File Type: jpg fake QVC KOSB.jpg (117.9 KB, 48 views)
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  #36  
Old 29-08-16, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Yours is an officers badge if solid silver or nco's badge if plated or w/m.

Remember that there was a strong tradition within the KOSB to wear the oldest badge possible, either handed down from ancestors who served earlier, hence the tradition, or bought wherever possible, which muddles the discussion about what is original and what is not.

Attached pic was taken in Irak. Note the Victorian pattern badges.

Rgds, Thomas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
No, the different amount of arrow loops or oillets and rounded scroll are signs of officers badges.

I also believe the museum is wrong with the 'very rare 1915 brass badge'. Why would such a badge exist? There was no reason to produce these badges in brass instead of white metal. The various threads of IWM pics with shoddy descriptions demonstrate the fallibility of museums quite sufficiently.

Rgds, Thomas.
Thomas
I agree. Last year when I was in Berwick I popped in to see the curator to buy from him Trevor Royle's book on the KOSB. I mentioned the 1915 brass badge that 3DG shows and said pretty much what you write above. He acknowledged what I said, but that was as far as it was going to go. As far as the museum were concerned it was a 1915 brass badge. Having said all that I don't wish to knock the exhibits which on the whole were excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit to the former barracks and museum as I do other Scottish military museums.
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  #37  
Old 29-08-16, 12:41 PM
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IsThanks Thomas for the pic of a genuine KOSB WM KC, would you mind if I could see the back as well. Also you mention a 'seeded' anodised badge, excuse my ignorance, but what does seeded mean please? And is the small anodised badge a belt buckle badge?
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  #38  
Old 29-08-16, 01:59 PM
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Also, is there a dealer selling a genuine KOSB WM KC? I cannot find one, most I've been on have the one I have! So steering clear!
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  #39  
Old 29-08-16, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
The Regular Bn was still wearing metal k/c although the q/c version has a sealed date of 1955 in K&K. However if you read Hagwalthers book you will see that stock levels meant that it took some years for the a a/a q/c badge to be required.

The w/m q/c ones are commercial ones imo.
I agree with you, the only officially issued QC badges are the two A/A versions, initially seeded and later unseeded, and the 'new metal' officers badge.

Rgds, Thomas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg KOSB seeded.jpg (116.8 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg KOSB unseeded.jpg (107.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg KOSB officers.jpg (100.2 KB, 25 views)
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  #40  
Old 29-08-16, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubaiguy View Post
Thanks Thomas.

The fretted round bottom scroll badge I have is w/m and you now confirm what I was rapidly concluding myself. That it was intended as an NCO's - though of course as a hand me down could have been worn by just about anyone. I even asked my sister who lives in a village outside Berwick to invite the retired KOSB major who lives close by in for a dram. I was hoping for the price of a couple of whisky's I could get some info from the horses' mouth. She may do so yet.

To add to the fake rounded scroll KC you show, I include a scan of 2 fake QVC's that I had picked up and disposed of. This is the fake I mentioned earlier and started off my reservation about round bottom O/R badges. eBay is peppered with this QVC one and they come with various degrees of artificial ageing. Usually a brownish wash that has been quickly and haphazardly painted on.

I didn't realize that there was also a seeded version of the a/a badge - thanks for that info. I'll need to look for one. Perhaps worth reiterating that there is also a smaller a/a badge often sold as the small glengarry badge which is nothing of the sort.

Thanks again for the info.
Mark
Mark, Keep us posted on the outcome of the meeting between your sister and the Major, could be interesting.

The smaller A/A badge is a sporran badge.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #41  
Old 29-08-16, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubaiguy View Post
Thomas
I agree. Last year when I was in Berwick I popped in to see the curator to buy from him Trevor Royle's book on the KOSB. I mentioned the 1915 brass badge that 3DG shows and said pretty much what you write above. He acknowledged what I said, but that was as far as it was going to go. As far as the museum were concerned it was a 1915 brass badge. Having said all that I don't wish to knock the exhibits which on the whole were excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed my visit to the former barracks and museum as I do other Scottish military museums.
Odd that the curator agrees the badge is not what the display suggests, yet it remains on display.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #42  
Old 29-08-16, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dg View Post
IsThanks Thomas for the pic of a genuine KOSB WM KC, would you mind if I could see the back as well. Also you mention a 'seeded' anodised badge, excuse my ignorance, but what does seeded mean please? And is the small anodised badge a belt buckle badge?
Sorry, badge is currently framed, so no reverse image. There are plenty of images available of similar badges, try Appie's album. Almost all are lugged east/west, very few were fitted with a slider for wear in the FSH puggaree.

Seeding is the pebble like structure on the scrolls, later done away with to improve readability on A/A badges.

The small badge is a sporran badge, the belt buckle badge is I believe the same size as the cap badge, but with different fittings?

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #43  
Old 29-08-16, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3dg View Post
Also, is there a dealer selling a genuine KOSB WM KC? I cannot find one, most I've been on have the one I have! So steering clear!
Neither of the selected sellers at the top of the forum have one on offer at the moment, but there are a few on Ebay, go for slightly domed one with a crisp strike and full voiding around the crest.

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #44  
Old 29-08-16, 09:04 PM
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Thank you Thomas for all your help, greatly appreciated, I'll keep my eyes out for a seeded anodised myself, very interesting. And thanks to everyone else who have posted, cheers
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  #45  
Old 30-08-16, 07:15 AM
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These round bottom badges are of the Officers' pattern but it is possible that NCOs may have adopted them as well - however this wold be regtl practice and not officially supplied. As has been said the waters are muddied by the fact that they are heavily reproduced.

As for the regtl museum's brass one - I fear that it has been donated as a 'rare WW1 all brass badge' and the museum has repeated the fallacy that such a badge was produced as a wartime saving measure when it is untrue and thus given a legitimacy to a fake.
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