Cap Badge Copyright

[Cornishpasty]

Would anyone be able to help me please, if the likeness of a cap badge is produced on an item of clothing for commercial use is there any copyright issues? Thanks for any help.

[mikewelsby]

Yes. The MOD holds the copyright to all of its badges but does loan the rights to commercial supplies to use them.

[54Bty]

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nformation.pdf

Marc

[Cornishpasty]

Thank you for your help!

Cornish Pasty

[mtrpltpara]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...nformation.pdf

Marc

Does all that mean those copying badges need to obtain permission?
Regards,
Bill.

[Neibelungen]

Broadly speaking, anything under 125 years old from it's first date of issue would be under Crown Copyright.
But then again, if your reproducing items as fakes, would you even care that it violates one set of laws over another.

Until recently, it was purely a civil matter, though changes to IP rules last year have put it slightly more in the realm of being a criminal matter, but it's still one of actually enforcing those rights or if the effort is worth the time and cost to pursue.

I wonder if this is why most of the repro AAC and GPR cap badges I see all have certain features that distinguish them from the real thing. Interesting thread

Andy

[shootemup]

In Canada, copyright is held by the Department of Public Works.

[Neibelungen]

Many people think if you make a 10% change to an item it gets round copyright rules, but it's a very incorrect assumption.
It falls under 'derivative work' and only the copyright holder has a right to make changes and get the benefit of them.

Usually it's either they started from scratch and didn't quite replicate it exactly, or they have used a copy to start from.
Even starting from scratch violates copyright, as the design itself is protected (though often under slightly different rules and laws to some degree)

I've had it happen on occasion, where I've reproduced an 18th C design of button or badge. The design itself isn't within copyright, but the actual work I make is copyrighted. So anybody can make another version to the design without problem, but they can't directly (ie take a mould) copy my own work itself.

Occasionally I've been asked by a regiment or military tailor to supply badges or buttons as they were unavailable via the MOD or the major manufacturers in small quantities. It can be difficult explaining to either, that you can't make legal modern reproduction of a regiment's own designs and badges without paying and getting permission from the MOD directly first, yet you can buy a fake repro off Ebay with impunity

[mtrpltpara]

Please excuse my confusion here.
Are you saying that you yourself cannot make copies because you stick to the rules yet ebay sellers of copies just ignore them?
Regards,
Bill.
PS still trying to get my head round this, is it that permission is required to copy a badge, but those who ignore that get away with it because of the lack of interest by the relevant people?.
Bill.

Originally Posted by Neibelungen

Many people think if you make a 10% change to an item it gets round copyright rules, but it's a very incorrect assumption.
It falls under 'derivative work' and only the copyright holder has a right to make changes and get the benefit of them.

Usually it's either they started from scratch and didn't quite replicate it exactly, or they have used a copy to start from.
Even starting from scratch violates copyright, as the design itself is protected (though often under slightly different rules and laws to some degree)

I've had it happen on occasion, where I've reproduced an 18th C design of button or badge. The design itself isn't within copyright, but the actual work I make is copyrighted. So anybody can make another version to the design without problem, but they can't directly (ie take a mould) copy my own work itself.

Occasionally I've been asked by a regiment or military tailor to supply badges or buttons as they were unavailable via the MOD or the major manufacturers in small quantities. It can be difficult explaining to either, that you can't make legal modern reproduction of a regiment's own designs and badges without paying and getting permission from the MOD directly first, yet you can buy a fake repro off Ebay with impunity

[Neibelungen]

Pretty much.

If your working for current units your likely to fall under the scrutiny of MOD inspection and/or the ire of the current manufacturers because your undercutting their own work.

Badge fakers are mostly under the radar or too far away to be of any concern because their dealing with things no longer currently required.

The other side is that crown copyright is 125 years (which is held by the MOD/Crown), while the badges themselves (the work of creating them by the manufacturer) are under design right (a different set of IP laws) which is about 20 years with the design copyright IP being licensed and thus not owned by them.

The legal costs of pursuing IP infringement are usually much higher than the redress you might get back and is often only examined where it could have an impact of current reputation. ie modern marking using the IP to give the appearance of some sort of official sanction

[mtrpltpara]

Thanks, think I've got it now.perhaps neither MOD/Crown or manufacturers are losing money by people copying eg Pals badges, so no one cares.
Wonder if the media or MP's could take up the baton in these Centenary years?
Regards,
Bill.