27th Lancers

[2747andy]

There are at least 2 "FIRMIN LONDON" Maker marked examples, one like yours with a very flat/smooth rear and another which shows quite a bit of reverse detail and tiny strengthening bars to the top rear of the elephants head! On the smooth examples I'd expect to see a long rectangular sweat hole rear of the head!

There is something not right about the one you show, the MM looks odd, should be 12mm long, the numerals don't look right, the lines to the top half of the pennons look a little large and I'm not a fan of the Elephants wide open eyes?

Could be just the images, but I'm suspicious!

Images moved to this Album.

Andy

[RMR]

Hi Andy the mm is 12mm long the lettering is the same as the second example you show and the eyes are the same as your second example.Roger

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by RMR

Hi Andy the mm is 12mm long the lettering is the same as the second example you show and the eyes are the same as your second example.Roger

Roger,
if it were me it would be going back in the post in the morning! There are too many points that I would not be happy with! Detail to the lance points and feet, the jewels on the crown arms and that left eye as viewed! Unless it was less than a fiver I'd be returning it in a flash!

Andy

[Robthereiver]

Originally Posted by RMR

Hi all I received this in todays post it has no braising hole and no strengtheners but it seems to have age and the size is correct so opinions please.Roger

Sorry, Roger I don't like the look of this and I concur with Andy I'd expect a braze hole behind the Elephants head. I don't think the sliders right either and IMO I suspect its an early copy 1960/70's that would give it age.
However, Peter Seamans your man for this, and I hope he offers you an opinion.

Rob

[RMR]

2 more photo's

[2747andy]

Roger, Now I'm 100% sure it's a dud! The surplus metal to the right angles below where the pennons meet the lance poles is another worry!

Sorry mate - Send it back!

Images moved to this Album.


Andy

[RMR]

Thanks Andy,when I received it the lack of a braising hole worried me, I bought this off someone reputeable so I do not see any problem returning it.Thanks to all who replied.Roger

[peter seaman]

Good evening Roger,

This pattern 27L head dress badge is a common copy for all of the reasons already given above. However, I would add that this pattern copy can also be found with added white metal portions to the lower lance pennons making it look like the officers pattern - which they are not.

All good wishes,

Peter

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by RMR

Thanks Andy,when I received it the lack of a braising hole worried me, I bought this off someone reputeable so I do not see any problem returning it.Thanks to all who replied.Roger

Roger,
1st time I've seen a copy with this Firmin mark! That's a worry in itself!

Good luck with the return, never nice pointing out a copy to anyone!! I've a batch of Cav badges en route, there's a spare 27L amongst them and if good, it'll be on my Ebay site soon!

Andy

[RMR]

Many thanks Peter and thanks again Andy, I appreciate the help from all who responded to this thread.Roger

[tonyb]

I would agree with Andy ref the FIRMIN mark, though the spacing of the letters in LONDON is unequal when compared with a genuine mark, so could be something to look out for.
Cheers Tony.

[JimD]

It just shows that the fakers are getting better, no doubt they are members of this forum and taking note, sorry for the grim opinion.

Cheers
Jim

[wright241]

Originally Posted by iain

Hello. Whilst looking through the threads for the 27th Lancers i have not come across a blackened badge,but i have recently come across this one,is it a genuine badge or covered in paint to hide something,i am no expert on cavalry but not too sure of the back of the pennons [ ? ] .
Iain

I have 2 of these and without exception they both have FIRMIN LONDON in a very small font stamped on the slider. Yours may have been blackened in service but I would still look for the maker mark. Its too hard to tell whether what you have is the real McCoy with all that gunge on it. I don't have Peters book to hand, but I recall they should all have the MM, braized at the back of the head and with strengtheners. The one fake that I do have, has no mark, no braizing hole and the back of the pennants arn't solid. Very like yours. But, I would be tempted to clean it up. Your choice of course.
David

[iain]

Thank you David,i will take another look and i was thinking it could do with a clean up myself.
Iain

[iain]

David i have included a shot of the brazing hole, so maybe your thought of blackened in service might be right.

Iain